The Art of Natural Dressage

Working with the Horse's Initiative
It is currently Thu May 16, 2024 7:51 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:11 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 8:18 pm
Posts: 4941
Location: Alberta
In the sticky at the top of this section, Josepha wrote,

Quote:
We want to hear the horses every whisper so we can learn from him.
He is the teacher and the only true master.


This gave me a nice warm feeling inside. This is what I wish to do...even more important when I am riding. I strive to be in harmony with the horse's movements and not a hindrance.

Where I am by no means a "sack of potatos" on my horse's back, I know that I can greatly improve with better physical fitness. I am getting better in terms of balance, and my seat has improved. A trainer once commented that she "had no problem with my horse", which a rather wierd way of saying that she liked how he moved and carried himself. Another trainer said almost the same thing about my seat. Odd! But it gave me some confidence that where I am by no means great, I'm not the worst they've ever seen either!

But I must, must, must strive for better fitness within myself in order to get to be a better rider.

I know from watching the Nevzorov dvds, Books and videos of Hemplfing, and even my trainer friend Paul, that there are workable variations of "seat" and differing opinions on the perfect balance point. For all I know it may vary slightly from horse to horse and not just discipline to discipline.

But my real goal is more within myself. I am not in shape. Period. I weigh too much and my core strength is no where near what it should be. So now I also begin to work on myself. Cisco would be very pleased if I would lose some weight. He's willing to work with me on balance, but it would help his back if I got in better shape.

Any help or guidance in this endeavor, will be greatly appreciated!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:03 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
Posts: 1940
Location: The Hague, Netherlands
I think you can benefit a lot from Emmerries knowlegde of Pilates. I did it also but from a DVD. Its really great and comes from the same center of your body as the movements when riding.
I also am going to take salsa lessons. The movement within riding comes from the hips, the pelvis, the belly region, the same in salsa. So I hope Evita and I can do the southern dances together ;)


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:14 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
Posts: 1940
Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Josepha, maybe you can tell more about centered riding, I'm very curious about that!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:26 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
Okay, well centred riding already says it.

You ride from your centre and you ride your horse from his centre.

But first I would like to share my own finding with you before I’ll put up a post sheer about the basics of centred riding, if you do not mind.

Important is that the point of gravity from both your horse and his rider falls together.

to achieve that you must sit:
- on the right spot being on the 13 and 14 vertebrae of the horse where he can carry most
- you must sit balanced, which means your body has to be in one straight line.
That line they always go on about going through ear, shoulder, hip and heal is not for nothing.


Imagine the Scottish treebearers, they can only lift and walk with his immense heavy trees when the tree is totally straight and balanced.
The moment it is not, the Scotsman can carry it no longer for then it becomes to heavy.

Then it is important that you know how to 'move' on your horse.
Martial artist and dancers indeed are best viewed for inspiration.

some training video's of Bruce Lee are a great inspiration to me.
He states that when fighting your opponent you must achieve to learn 'the art of fighting without fighting'.

you must be as water.
Water changes into every position, but no one can press the water in, it is the strongest mass on this planet.
No one can hit the water.
But the water can be moved, and the water can move the opponent without loosing any mass our strength.

To translate it to horse riding, I always say:
You must achieve to learn 'the art of sitting without sitting'.
You sit on your horse yet you should not sit as though resting.
You must not sit active either, you must sit reactive.
You need to allow you body to be open, let all energy run trough so you can allow the horse to walk as if the person on his back is connected to his every move, muscle and breath.
Meaning that you follow up all the movement, absorb it and give it back.

Must people are told to follow the movement of the horse, for instance the head in walk when they hold the rein.
What you see is that they are always to late.
Every time the horse feels the hand of the rider and then it is loose again.
It must be a constant 'holding hands'.

when you explain to the rider that he is dancing with his horse and stepping on his foot all the time, they go like 'huh?'
Then I explain that in order to have the head (or mouth in case with the bit) and the hand in one ongoing flowing connection you must go about it as if you where dancing with someone who leads.
Where you to follow, you would always be to late and stand on your partners foot.
Therefore, you must know what the next move is going to be and react to that move simultaneously with your partner.

The same it is with ‘following’ your horse’s movement, it is not following in fact, it is reacting.

After you’ve achieved that, you then can ‘move yourself’ and the horse will react.
The moment your horse reacts into to the movement you wanted, you become reactive again untill you want things to change again.

As the horse always reacts when you do all sorts of thing you do not want to do, or not even know you’re doing.
Whatever the horse is doing: you are making him do it!
Therefore, spurs, whips and bits are out of order untill you know a 100% what you are doing in every tiny bit of your body...
And when you do, well let's face it, where do you need bits, whips and spurs for?

These things are only tools to compensate our wrong doing I have come to learn..

A horse mirrors his rider
A horse mirrors his rider, it is nature’s law, nothing spiritual.

I’ve taken from my own Flemish forum some pictures which show nicely the mirroring of horses of their riders:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Image

I have to work now, later I shall place some more pictures from my own riding, wrong and good and explain the basics of centred riding.

for the moment, food for thought enough I should think :)

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
Karen wrote:
In the sticky at the top of this section, Josepha wrote,

Quote:
We want to hear the horses every whisper so we can learn from him.
He is the teacher and the only true master.

I agree with this totally but without the human master/teacher on the ground how can the rider know they are correct.
Whilst we would all like to be a 'natural' rider they are few and far between, and to have a 'master' on the ground explaining to us how to interact to absorb, balance, feel and stay with the horses body, and rhythm, and to absorb it safely and gently, is I think paramount to the happiness and partnership of both horse and rider.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:40 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
Posts: 1940
Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Indeed I think its very necessary to have a trainer on the ground. I know Josepha has wonderful trainers too :D
But a good trainer also looks mainly at what a horse tells him / her ;) so the horse also teaches the trainer :lol:


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:43 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
of course :)

You could see the human teacher on the ground as a 'translator'
A good one translates the horse's whispers for the novice rider :)

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:55 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
Posts: 1940
Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Haha reminds me of the time Lisanne stood in the middle teaching and I was galopping with Evita for the first time. Her galop was so different from what I've ever felt before (more upward as forward) and I lost balance every time she started to galop :oops: . After a few times trying Evita halted at Lisanne and stood there looking at her like she was saying "can you please tell Bianca how to ride???" :lol: :mrgreen:


Last edited by Bianca on Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 3:56 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
Bianca wrote:
Indeed I think its very necessary to have a trainer on the ground. I know Josepha has wonderful trainers too :D
But a good trainer also looks mainly at what a horse tells him / her ;) so the horse also teaches the trainer :lol:

But sometimes the trainer has to sit on the horse, because what you see on the ground isnt always what the rider is feeling that the horse is telling him/her, and it is good occasionally to feel for yourself to confirm that you are right.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:00 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
Indeed, sometimes I really do not know what to say to the rider anymore, it just won't work and the horse remains annoyed with the rider.

Then I try it out and feel it for myself.
Ussually that only comfirms the rider is faulth, but seeing it done can often make the difference for the rider.

Like yesterday evenening when I could not convince the rider that it was her own doing that her horse always went out of the circle, the other way.
Her hands blocked the horse. So I had her take the reins in one hand and the problem was solved.

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:43 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
Yes sometimes too if the rider's weight is to the outside of the horse, then the horse finds it so difficult to circle, had a similar incidence myself last night, with quite a novice rider, who's weight was totally outside, of course if the rider is a novice, they are not used to the centrifugal force in play when working on a circle, so if they are not established in walk I do not tend to ask for trot until they are sorted, as CF is worse the faster the pace.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:46 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
Right you are.
Most work I do and let riders do is in walk.

Funny we were working on the same thing with pupils last night :)

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:51 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
Yes how strange!!!
Similar problems wherever you are situated!!!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:54 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
ha ha ! yes... maybe not so strange afterall, if you put it that way :)

I was working with this truly wonderful friesian mare and a very sensitive and intelligent rider which makes the job fairly easy :)

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
And I was working with my so clever Andalusian stallion, who is 22 years old, and a Professor in his own right, and a lady who hasn't ridden for 6 years, and he was just so generous, a real angel!!! :D


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited Color scheme created with Colorize It.