The Art of Natural Dressage

A couple of days ago I was reading for one of the first times at this forum, and I found videomaterial of Evita from Bianca. I hope it is oke I copy the link here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXqU3giUPek

It inspired me to see if Donanta understood my question for cantering in a short range around me, after practising in trot for a long time. I had a feeling she might be ready for it.

And so she was! Only for a couple of steps, but it is hard work She understood immediately what it was I was asking from her, so I praised her big time!

The only thing is.... either she get's too enthousiastic while cantering or it is still physically difficult or uncomfortable, but she had a tendency to buck while cantering.
Because it is more easy for her to canter with her haunches in, the buck would also be in my direction! This felt a bit unsafe.

Ofcourse it might be that Donanta knows exactly how NOT to touch me, but if not, it could get ugly.

On the other hand, it might also be possible that is is not a physical reaction, but one that has to do with respect. However I always keep that possibility open, I do not feel that is the case here.

How do you manage this kind of things?

Hi Marleen!

Very nice to see you here
This week I was doing the same with Imperia, running and she next to me galopping. When I couldn't keep up she indeed also bucked to my side but indeed far not close enough to hit me.
My thoughts are that its about the position I was in. I see horses buck in this situation when they are running together. I was walking straight and she was a bit crossing my path a few meters further, I was walking behind the line of the hip bone.

I can never say this is no psysical problem in your case but if it isn't you can teach Donanta to stay at a certain point. Evita is always in the reach for me to touch her shoulder. I taught her this to be able to keep an eye on her movements.

With Imperia I'm now sometimes practicing straight lines and that she stops when I stop, run when I run and keep het nose at the height of my shoulder. She thinks its great fun
When a horse bucks within 5 meters of me I say "no". I rather have 10 rearing horses than one bucking.. I found this too dangerous. Imperia gets it now most of the times. She willl make a little jump with her buttocks but wil not kick with her legs.

Hope to read more about your adventures with Donanta!

Bianca

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Thank you so much for your answer!

It sounds that what you do about the bucking (close) is the same as what I do. I also say 'no' and after that I reward her big time for making an effort to be careful with me, even if she gets excited!
Sometimes I get the feeling she wants to please me so much, that she even risks stretching to much so it hurts her a little. But that attitude is a small jewel in my opinion, but it is my responsibility to adjust the excersise immediately so she will be physically comfortable also.

With Flor I do not dare to play like this yet. I was kicked in my ribs for two several times when she was a filly, and that is fresh in my memory!
But we are playing other small games and are also working on that hindleg-sensitivity

But how did you train Evita to stay at that point? Can jyou give me some pointers?

(ps: love to be here
)

Like I always say "Evita would change colour to see me smile" .. we are blessed with special spanish ladies

With Evita I don't know how I taught this but with Imperia I first teach walk a few steps and stand still. When I halt I raise my hand with bended arm, my hand (close to my ear) and say "halt". She has to stay behind the arm. The first time they are mostly focussed on your hand before their head so they will pay attention. This ofcoursed has to be praised like winning the olympics. Prolong the walking and if you feel she walks to far in front you stop and repeat the halting.

When this is working you can pick a spot to hold your hand at the horses shoulder and repeat the halting and walking and make sure she understands she have to keep walking at that point.
When all is going well you can start to run for brief moments. When she runs too fast you stop and stand still immediately. With Imperia I stood there with my hand in the air and eventually she understood she had to stand behind me again for me to praise her and walk or run again.

With Evita the next step was telling her to walk left next to me or right next to me
She also listens to the pressure of my hand at her shoulder. Very helpful to keep a safe distance with practicing levade / pesade.

Its also helpful to teach "distance" because this is the opposite from teaching the above. I teach this to still have a horse wich can act crazy, but away from me. This is very easy to learn. When she is running at a safe distance you say "distance" and praise her greatly! Eventually the coin will drop.

PS is it allright to move your question to the "Groundwork" section?

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Yes ofcourse!

I will think about your info and see what I can do with it, thanks

I used to do this type of play with my horse with her at my shoulder and she likes to toss her head around and flip back and forth between happy and snoty faces- I think it is just her playing. Recently I've started working from beside her hip where she keeps me at her hip- she has gotten to where when I put her somewhere in relation to me that that is her 'spot'. I can now switch the positions. I start with easy transitions until she figures out where her spot is. By the end, if I canter and than halt, she of course runs way out ahead until geting stopped, but if it is a good day, without me asking, she will back up untill she is in position again. I love it!

Hlater's arent totoally evil if you want to play and are worried about those hind legs you can keep a hlater on, try not to touch it, but if a leg comes at you you can pull her head towards you thus swing the huanches away- it is better to be safe than ideal! Also I make sure I can yeild my horse sideways away from me at walk and trot first. You can also run in a small enough cirlce that your horse finds it easier to be a litle further away from you.

Good luck and please keep us updated!

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Learning to put the relationship first.

Indeed, the yielding for pressure is in the first exercises of this groundwork forum too. I don't necessarily like the halter-part in this case, though. Of course it's effective, but it's effective because you throw the horse off-balance and you can do that only a couple of times before he's going to brace himself because he might get thrown off his balance again. also it's kind of indirect: in order to get the hindquarters away you pull the head towards you... Solving the problem at it's core, by asking the hindquarters to yield away, is more direct: you tell the horse exactly what you want from him so that he knows exactly what he should learn from this. Next to that, moving the hindquarters away, even when tapping with a whip if it's an emergency, doesn't throw your horse off balance but keeps him stable and focused. And most important: you're not sec correcting or punishing him, you're giving him an assignment to do. That's way more positive for both parties.

I like your idea of running small circles in order to get the horse to move away, very smart!

I won't use the halter either because when it would get dangerous the halter is out of reach or do you mean keep the horse on a rope?
Personally I don't like to put pressure to make the horse move away when he's bucking. I just want him / her away. The horse says "move" by bucking and I find it desrespectful to the horse to do the opposite but can teach the horse its possible to move away by itself when he/she wants to express him/herself.

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Hmm, rephrase- I'm not talking sand skiing to whip the horse around (I'm sure you already know that!) but if the HQ are coming at you and you ONLY put pressre on the HQ ,no matter how light, you are highly likely to cause the horse to kick you! If you have a feel for the horse's head before you put on the HQ pressure it will be more likely to tget the horse to turn and face versus kicka nd run off. Yes you might throw off is balance some, but lets weigh this out....



horse gets off balance / human gets kicked in head




I'm all for being as light as possible, but I will be as firm as neccesary

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Learning to put the relationship first.

I use a halter at times too...but my goal is always to have the line slack...it is there because it needs to be, and all efforts by either Cisco or Tamarack to help me keep the line slack are praised in some way, sometimes just by cooing the word "niiiiiiice" in a loving tone.

So I think it is possible to have a halter on for safety - just in case the horse may turn and kick from exhuberance or from feeling pressure (even if that pressure is unintentional...see the paragraph below), so if you had to, you could turn the horse into face you. If one is aware that the halter can produce imbalance, then you can do what you need to do to avoid it. But...imbalance can happen with a cordeo, or with nothing on the horse at all, too.

Anna (I MET ANNA!!) came out to our stable, and she noticed that both my boys stay in quite close to me (dropping a shoulder in), and Cisco especially tends not to bend nicely around me. Tam is better than Cisco at nicer bending....but what Anna noticed is that my body language is different with Cisco than it is with Tamarack. She had me try something different with Cisco (which is close to what I do naturally with Tamarack), which was really just tipping my hip (which is closest to the horse) up and toward the horse slightly, and ta-da! Cisco bent much nicer. While Anna was there, I was a little tense and not doing it very well, but it gave me the idea and then last night I did it better and it worked very, very well.

With Tamarack, he is bending a bit better in the front, but his butt falls outward - so we have things to work on with our in-hand work. But Anna also pointed out when Tamarack would turn his head away from me...even if we were standing still. Now, I think some of that was my nervousness at having someone new watching us work, as Tamarack was also being very much a brat and being very grabby about his rewards - more so than usual - and I think he was quite uncomfortable with me being "different" than I normally am. With Anna there, I was stiffer, and thinking to hard about how I was moving and what the horses were doing, but it was VERY astute of her to have picked up on how a little change in my body language would change how the horses related to me.

At one point, I had had about enough of Tamarack's extra pushy-ness, so I asked him to back away and stay there while Anna and I talked. Almost the whole time I was playing with Tamarack, he had his ears back. When I backed him away though, and asked him to stay there, I kept my whip pointing at him (or later, my finger) and I turned sideways so I was not facing him directly.

His ears popped forward and stayed there. Although I was telling him, with my outstretched arm, that he was not welcome to come in and mug me, I wasn't putting any pressure on him directly with my body ..so he relaxed and his ears were normal.

ARgh! I have so much to learn yet!