The Art of Natural Dressage

Working with the Horse's Initiative
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:18 pm 

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Hi Glen, your so lucky 8)
I have been doing Ttouch with bridge and target with Syd and the freedom of movement without any tension is just incredible. I don't use the chain, as I use targeting and multitarget points along with all of her exercises , including the Tteam groundwork.

I just love the positive results.

Can't wait to hear more from you.
Take Care
Carrie

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Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:27 pm 
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OK. So, now I'm going to try and tell a bit about what I've learned. This might become quite long, so I'll split into different posts.

Our trainer was Edie and she was assisted by Lindy and Catherine. Generally, we started each day with some theory, then went to play with the horses and then had a de-briefing.

Edie explained and demonstrated some things, and we practised on each other before trying it out on the horses.

She also spoke a few things that I found very thought-provoking.
"Behaviour is a usually symptom of a habit, not an expression of a preference or choice."
"Balance has 3 supports - physical, mental (focus) and emotional. Treating any one of them will effect all 3."
"Self grows through confidence, control and carraige."
"Make it clear, make it possible, make it tolerable. Listen."
"Be absolutely consistent."
"We seek direction, not correction."
"Touch and movement changes tension patterns."
"What we do depends on the needs of the horses and people participating."
"Explosions or shut-downs are rarely caused by single concerns, but by a series of events or emotions."
"Owners fret about "big" issues or specific behaviours - reduce the number of concerns the horse frets about and the frequency of all dangerous behaviour will reduce."

One particular thing that was emphasised was to monitor the horse's breathing as that is usually the first sign of discomfort. Rapid, shallow breathing and holding the breath are decidedly undesireable! She showed us several ways to release the breath before it became tension. The easiest is food, or to get the horse to turn it's head until the nose is close to the shoulder (sort-of like carrot streches.) She specifically said that "head-down" when already stressed is counter-productive.

:oops: I haven't paid enough attention to my horse's breathing.

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Glen Grobler

Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:52 pm 
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From what I've learned so far (which is limited) Ttouch techniques are:

1. Specific ways to touch, which lengthens muscle fibres, releases tension, reduces inflammation, generates ability to learn, brings physical awareness, re-connects parts to each other, restores circulation, calms, and more.
2. Precision leading in certain ways which encourages the horse to think for itself, balance better, understand cues better, be more supple, become more aware of foot-placement, and more.
3. Body-wraps to create more awareness, increase impulsion and collection, deepen breathing, prepare for backing, riding, driving and packing, and more.
4. Ground-driving and line-driving which helps horses stop worrying about what's behind them and start to pay attention behind instead of trying to avoid what's behind, and more.

There is a lot of comfort and confidence generated by this work. I saw 2 shy horses become friendly and comfortable overnight. I saw an aggressive horse become more accepting.

There are some "touches" which have very specific application and other touches which are more general. For example "ear-touch" is good for temperature, shock, stress (haha, and hangovers!) and "tail-work" is good for loosening backs and quarters.

There was a lot of emphasis on "don't pull or push - just suggest" which I thought was very cool. Also "we're not looking for a specific response or behaviour, we're looking for an increase in awareness and understanding." So everything the horses did was "correct" because it gave information.

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm
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Location: USA Michigan
This is exactly how I feel

"Everything the horse does is correct, or that I am not looking to correct or manipulate, as the horse is giving information, he isn't wrong "

Yes, breathing is so very important for thehorses and ourselves. I try to remain rhythmic in everything that I do. When rhythm is lost, relaxation or calm is lost as well.

Rhythm and Relaxation is the foundation of all work.

If breathing is shallow and out of rhythm = then your not relaxed or calm.

As the horse and human develop a partnership, energy can come into the equation in the " dance " but there is tense/anxious energy and there is the energy we see in dance teams, it is fluid without tension. Many folks mistake the tense almost in flight mode energy as impulsion. I see impulsion as the energy that is created from being fit, knowing what to do and enjoying it for the feeling one gets from the movement in and of itself. Just like "Dancing with the Stars " dance teams, they are energetic but without tension. Or figure skaters....

I pray that more and more people will look for a deeper and better understanding of the horse. I feel so bad for them.

I am so glad the instructors pointed out the "head down " "issue " I have said that very thing, to deaf ears....LOL
Glad to hear someone else is stating it.

I have said that it is the emotion , NOT the behavior. I can get a really reliable behavior on a cue, but if I don't have an emotion with it or by chance I have a pissy emotion with it, it certainly won't help me in a time of true crisis.

I have seen alot of people teach head down as a behavior thinking that this will help when a emotional change is needed.....

GREAT STUFF Glen.

Thanks for sharing
Carrie

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Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.

Lakota proverb


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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:24 pm 
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Right then - "are we all seated comfortable two-square on our bottoms? Then I'll begin ..."

The Ttouches can be split into:
1. Circles
2. Slides & Strokes
3. Lifts

These can be applied as they are, or combined, eg. use a circle to lead into a lift, use a slide to end a lift, etc. It will be quite difficult to describe the actual touches without being able to demonstrate, so I'm not even trying.

The leading helps a horse by encouraging movement without tugs, jerks or "heavy hands" on the lead-line/s, so that the horse can concentrate on the movement and balance without worrying about bracing.

Jocelyn, I didn't see any chains over noses, but they did have a sample of that lead-line there, and generally they would only use it if the horse has demonstrated that it is "dead" to gentler signals, or has to "un-learn" being a bully so it can learn be a partner.

The "wierd leading positions" also help the horses to learn guidance cues if they don't have any. There are different ways to lead that encourage movement "from behind," or towards the hand, or away from the hand. If you try to take very, very tiny little steps and pause between each one you'll probably have some difficulty balancing and will have to practise a few times before you can do it. However, after you succeed, your entire "body organisation" will have learned more about balancing!

Edie said it is valuable to teach several commands for halt, forward, left, right and stand, and practise them all from every concievable direction. If your horse tangles in a wire fence you will be glad to have a reliable "don't move" cue. A halt cue that you can issue while running up behind your horse could save the day if ever he panicks and bolts, or "takes off" on his own, and when this is reliable please practise it while mounted on another horse! A solid "go away" cue can be very important, as well as a trustworthy "come here" and I can imagine some difficult situations where you might catch yourself wishing you had taught an unmounted side-pass, to both sides if you please.

They do make use of a scary-looking "pelham"-type bit with curb-chain, huge shanks, et al. However, the horse is prepared for it by "learning" cues for halt, left and right on a balance-rein (cordeo) and the reins on this bit are only there to create a specific balance in the bit - they are not for pulling on, or even holding! This bit has a "roller" in the curve of the bit, which is carefully counter-weighted and balanced by the shanks to lie flat on the tongue. It is to help horses who think they may not move their tongues or jaws. It can also gently "suggest" a ramener by it's own balance in the mouth.

Ummm, what have I forgotten? Oh yes, the "procedure" for teaching a horse to "ground-drive" (long reining) was absolutely fascinating. It took only three lessons:
1. A reliable verbal "whoa" from behind
2. A reliable verbal "walk-on" and trot on."
3. A few practise transitions.
Then the assistant near the horse's head was removed.

I was rather taken aback to "see" how easily a horse's balance is affected by its head, and more particularly by moving it's nose! We ended up using 6 or 7m light, soft, cotton ropes attached to the side-rings of a standard webbing halter.Just moving the line about 1m to the right with enough slack in it to hang level with the horse's elbow would result in a 20m circle! WOW! Just lifting both lines to my shoulder-height would cause a slow-down to a lovely balanced halt! LOL! The first time I tried I had trouble being light enough, and I was getting walk-pirouettes and almost sit-downs!

Then the students who had brought their own horses got a chance to ride and be "re-balanced" by the instructors, while the rest of us had to be satified with a barrel! I did feel how much more adhesion there was between me and the barrel, though!

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:03 pm 
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Oh, Glen, this is fabulous! I've been waiting for you to get back and share.

Feldenkreis was, if I'm remembering correctly, both a physicist and a martial artist. He saw, as you said, a very distinct connection between mind and body on a cellular level, and the Feldenkreis work I've done (a small amount, but very intriguing) is about helping the body to move better organically, rather than trying to manipulate it into doing something better by tugging or pulling or forcing. I first ran into the Feldenkreis method in the dance world -- and actually know a number of musicians who've found it as well, trying to find ways past things like carpal tunnel syndrome.

It's very gentle, very subtle -- actually, Karen's descriptions of how she works with Tam have reminded me of the Feldenkreis method in their philosophy, even if the techniques may be a bit different. I once spent a half an hour with a practitioner as he tried to teach me how to use my body better simply sitting down on a chair and standing back up again. It was very humbling -- after many years as a dancer, I feel I've got pretty darn good body awareness and understanding of movement -- I was really working hard to not work so hard!

:lol:

How cool that TTouch is based on this! I hadn't known that, and it makes total sense -- and makes the link to AND philosophy even stronger for me, as it isn't coercive.

More please...

If you played with body wraps, I'd be most interested in hearing about this and your perceptions of what they do. I've been reading a bit about them and feeling like trying this could be most helpful with both Stardust, as I continually work to help him find his emotional and physical balance (loved what you quoted about emotional/phsycial/mental balance -- UTTERLY agree with that after working with Stardust for 4 years), and helpful with Circe as she is still growing into herself.

I've dabbled a little with some of the touch work -- not easy with Stardust, as he's still not generally happy about being touched. But this is inspiration to play some more with Circe with it -- she's very cuddly and likes being touched, so if I make mistakes on her she'll be far less likely to be stressed about it!

Again, more please...

:-)

Thanks so much for sharing!

All the best,
Leigh


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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 10:31 pm 
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Hi, Leigh.

Yes, we played with body wraps. Each of the horses reacted/responded differently, however they ALL moved more collected and balanced after the wraps came off!

Always use quick-release knots to tie wraps on! Plan the position of the knots so that the wrap won't tangle if you pull the knots loose quickly! The "wraps" are actually soft, stretchy bandages in 3 or 4 inch widths. They must be loose - ie. just touching the body without restriction as if it was draped over and held by gravity.

The "first" wrap is around the base of the neck like a snug cordeo. Then a walk-halt-walk-halt. Then walk-trot-walk-halt. Then a halt-trot-halt-trot. Of course, this is the "ideal" movement which rarely occurs in practise. This makes the horse very aware of his forehand, and some horses will "overbalance" onto the forehand and get "stuck" there which could be neck-tension, back-tension, or disconnected quarters.

The second wrap is added in a figure-of-eight around the girth. This "should" deepen the breathing, might engage the quarters more, and might encourage rib-cage swing. Then repeat the movements and halts.

The third wrap is attached to the first about halfway up the slope of the shoulder on each side, and goes around the buttocks. NB: tie it on and leave it lying loosely on the croup and repeat the movements and halts, then slide it down over the tail and repeat the movements and halts, then lift the tail out over the wrap. Then repeat the movements and halts. If the horse will allow all of that, of course! This will prevent accidents if the horse is not happy about a "thing" behind him! This wrap can "cause" pelvic tilt, and better "free-swinging" movement of the quarters.

Also, you can wrap each leg in a loose "spiral" starting at the top. This brings awareness, which may have all sorts of results like stepping higher or lower or further or straighter or ... Or the neck.

You can wrap faces, or anything the horse will accept. If you want an idea of what they do, wrap yourself first! I did, and it was strange but not unpleasant. It calls attention to the wrapped area. If you have tension then simply making the body aware of it should be enough to release it. If you are clumsy the same applies. Any movement-pattern which is undesireable will change by "showing" it to the body. Not all the changes are retained - sometimes it exaggerates a "bad" movement pattern which will lead to it being corrected over time.

Wrap one of your legs. Or your chest (cross-my-heart bra) pattern. Wrap your neck. Take the wraps off after about 5 minutes. Feel what happens.

You say you've played a bit with Ttouch on Stardust but he doesn't like being touched. Have you tried using the back of your hand? Like a chimpanzee uses it's hand when it walks on it's knuckles? This is less intimate, and can be more tolerable. Can you "fiddle" with Stardust's tail? Do you know how to do "Tail-Ttouch? Or "hair-slides"?

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:25 pm 
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Oh, Glen, thank you!

I will print this out and read with more leisure and try the wrapping stuff with my guys.

And your tail suggestions for Stardust are splendid -- he doesn't mind me mussing with his tail, and may be a great place to start. (And the back of the hand touch is worth trying, too -- it's a rare moment that he actually wants to be stroked. I think it's a combination of being a thin-skinned gray warmblood and having residual pain memories from when everything hurt everywhere -- when I first got him and my vet did an acupuncture diagnostic on him, he was showing the highest pain levels all over his body, poor baby.) But your suggestions are very good and I'll try them!

Thank you!

:D

Best,
Leigh


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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:25 pm 
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Oh, Glen, thank you!

I will print this out and read with more leisure and try the wrapping stuff with my guys.

And your tail suggestions for Stardust are splendid -- he doesn't mind me mussing with his tail, and may be a great place to start. (And the back of the hand touch is worth trying, too -- it's a rare moment that he actually wants to be stroked. I think it's a combination of being a thin-skinned gray warmblood and having residual pain memories from when everything hurt everywhere -- when I first got him and my vet did an acupuncture diagnostic on him, he was showing the highest pain levels all over his body, poor baby.) But your suggestions are very good and I'll try them!

Thank you!

:D

Best,
Leigh


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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Leigh,

As soon as I finish writing this to you, I'm going to post some videos of my "clinic week" in my diary. There is one showing neck and quarters wrapped on a horse that could not walk over a pole with "step one foot and hold, then step the next foot, and then the next, and then the next" because his balance was poor and he was "rocking" every time one front foot was forward.

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:01 pm 
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I love Linda's philosiphy, animals are our teachers, never ignore thier "whispers". I have two of her books, which are great. But I really don't understand why she wants to use a chain.

She's also got a youtube channel now, check it out.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:13 pm 
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Rebel,

I can't speak about the chain thing - I didn't see one! It was mentioned in the one teleseminar, and there she said that sometimes a big, scary, out-of-control draft needs the extra weight of the chain to get a clear "feel" from it?

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:25 pm 
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Yeah, remember Glen I had asked the question why they ALWAYS have a chain on the nose and she said exactly what you mentioned. We also talked about the Parelli halter and she thought the rope halter was more strict than the chain (of course using it correctly).
I don't believe that because Corado has always had a Parelli halter and he doesn't have a problem with that. when he didn't want to do something, it was the swinging of the lead rope that stopped him, not just the halter. If I held the lead rope tightly and there was pressure, he would swing his head from left to right.
As for the chain, when we loaded Corado in the trailer when he was coming home, he didn't want to go in. The guy had to put a chain over his nose. He listened. So either Corado knew what the chain would do or he felt it right away.
I guess in every method, there are things you like and others you don't.


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 Post subject: body wrap
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:31 pm 

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I have some questions about this. I've seen the promise wrap work on many horses but I'm pretty confused. They say it slows an calms the horse for things like farrier and vet situations but comming froma nh backround I have to wonder why aren't these animals feeling enclosed? Or are they and we can't see it. Also Bear won't stand still for ttouch he walks off or finds something else to do. Am I doing this wrong?? Lastly the tail pull. I've seen many people use this to back up their horse and I back Bear up by the tail but these people are leaning on the tail doesn't that hurt? :? :? as usual I am confused XD


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:49 pm 
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:lol: Ttouch brings awareness of parts of the body to the creature it's being practised on, whether it's a horse, dog, cat or human!

So, the promise wrap brings awareness of the shoulders and/or quarters to the horse. On different horses it will have different effects.

If you think about your breathing rate or heart-rate you can influence it, and that is what wraps do - they make you aware, but on a very subtle level so you're not conciously trying to influence in any specific direction.

It's more like saying "Yes, you DO have shoulders and quarters! Feel how they move - can this become more comfortable?"

Many horses get "cut in half" when saddled as if the girth prevents co-ordination between shoulders and quarters, so wraps help with that. Some horses struggle to lift their shoulders, so a front half-wrap helps. Some horses struggle to extend, or collect, or whatever.

The wraps are so loose around the horse it is not at all restricting - they are laid on, not stretched on! I've heard it said it's like a hug, not a binding! I wore a few wraps to see for myself, and it is not enclosing in any way.

The tail-pull should be the end of a "loosen back muscles" session, and stretches the spine a little - like a back-crunch done externally.

Hope that helps!

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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