The Art of Natural Dressage

FOr those in the USA and get RFD-TV you might know what I'm talking about- they give wild mustangs to select trainers who have 100 days to gentle and start the horse and compete it against other trainers/mustangs.

Well, me AND my husband were accepted and we pick up our horses in IL (12 hours away ) on Jan 9!!!!!! We Compete in WI in April!!!!

YEY!!!!!!!

I am so excited. This will be no easy task and I am VERY nervous about it, but it could be a big break into becoming a "real" clinician.

I'm not promising that I will do it bitless considering the judges may very well see a 'bit' as being more advanced and I've never been pure AND anyways, however if the horse I get isn't too difficult for me, I would love to put some cordeo riding in IF I get to the final round which is freestyle.

We could defintily use some good vibes sent our way!!!

_________________
Learning to put the relationship first.

Congratulations... although I don't like the idea of such competition. It suggests that the sooner and faster you "start them", the better... while actually it's quite the opposite. Would be great if you could show them the "less is more" approach. But if using bit will make you look more advanced for judges, then well...
How old are these horses?
Why don't you start a diary?

_________________
"Never just follow the crowd." Margaret Thatcher

I do have a bit of a love hate relationship with these types of competitions myself... I think the idea is wonderful as they are trying to promote the Mustang which has not been doing so well- adoptions have been down and there has been legislation wars about slaughter for years now. I love that it helps promote deserving trainers. What I dislike is that when we talk about 100 days that is a lot of pressure! The horses are 3 and 4 years old, so that is good... the western world seems to love starting fresh turned 2yo

Mustangs are surprisingly well balanced in their movement naturally- probably from travelling so many miles they learn to carry themselves more comfortably!!!

I won't have much time to post during the 100 days as I will be sleeping in the barn for awhile (yes, in January! )and I still have other horses in training to keep up with. I will do a diary though and hopefully I'll find a magazine to publish it afterwards (Assuming I even get into the top ten.) From what I saw of the first mustang makeover on TV, just getting three balanced gaits power steering and power brakes is a huge task and should put me well in the standings if I manage to do so. I have NEVER had to work on any kind of timeline before so I really don't know what I can accomplish in 100 days. My thought is put the relationship first and what happens happens! Just like any other horse. I'll make spending time with this horse a priority and I may start desensitization stuff earlier and in more creative ways (like playing a tape that has occasional bullwhip cracking or something similar to play while I'm not there- not obnoxious noise 24/7 but stuff here and there to take some of the jumpiness out ) but otherwise I'll be working with this horse like any other.

At the end they auction the horse off and the trainer gets 20%. THAT will be the hardest part!!!!

_________________
Learning to put the relationship first.

Bid, and have friends bid if you can't.

Donald

_________________
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.

Donald- that would require money!!! OF course, if my husband or I win, we may have some!!!

_________________
Learning to put the relationship first.

Friends.

What's the biding range likely to be for a mustang, gentled to ride?

And best of luck to you. I envy you. Such an adventure no matter what the outcome.

Donald

_________________
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.

I wish you good luck as well, I know how tough it is to get a break in the horse business especially when you put the horse first.

_________________
Kind regards
Christina
http://www.horsepro.net

That's really cool you got picked! I hope you have a good time.

I do know a guy, Micheal Gonzalez, who got picked last year, the first time they did it. He dropped out halfway through. I forget exactly what for, mostly I think he said they were QH judges looking for QH mustangs. Peanut rollers and such. He bought his horse and dropped out of the prize part. www.lessismorehorse.com is his website. He lives near me and I was trying to arrange a clinic, that's how I know about it. He's got the story on his forum.

_________________
If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys.

I looked all over his site and forum and could not find the reason for his backing out. I saw the top two finishers on RFD-TV and neither was anywhere close to a peanut pusher. The top finisher was in a curb- but ridden correctly with loose reins in one hand and a long neck with an incredibley well balanced canter.

My husband hopes to start his horse in a rope hackamore and finish it in a bosal- that woud be very cool! I'll have to wait and see how it goes to see what tack I end up using. It depends a lot on the horse's natural abilities and tendencies. I would prefer a french link snaffle to going around hollow which I think is terribly damaging. I also don't expect to go completely in a neck rope for everything in 100 days, so we'll have to see.

Chris, yes it is difficult- especially in the show world, but i find the average horse owner is quite relieved to find a trainer who doesn't advocate harshness- leadership yes, but leadership is simply passive persistance- not whacking, pulling, or gaining leverage.

_________________
Learning to put the relationship first.

I'm out of the loop. "Peanut pusher?"

By the way, if you ever happen to see my pics showing the girls I taught back in the 60s, you'll see all with double bridle (the competitive showring you see) and not a tight rein in the bunch.

Ex broncs, so sometimes a bit uneven. They even jumped with looped reins, though it cost them points...seriously.

They refused to go with the flow, and I think I can take a little credit for the classroom training on the subject of the horse, and it's nervous system. And, their horses, though not one was owned by any of them, were more important to them than winning.

These young women won a lot of competitions anyway. They could do things with ex broncs that others simply could not do with supposedly "tame," horses.

And it was due to the principles of lightness. If one has to pull on a bit one is not training or partnering with the horse. Better to wear the bit one's self.

All bits seen in the pics below are Tom Thumb jointed Pelhams.







Way way cool. I'm just finishing up assembling my first traditional La Jaquima I've made in over forty years. I've done a least a dozen before as I was growing up.

Maybe I'll post a pic.

Latigo Bleeding Heart knots metal-buckle free hanger and hand tied Fiador. Five eights to 1/2 inch Bosal. Rawhide core. Sheepskin jaw protection, and nose-piece. Lost my last one in a fire in about 1981 or 82.



Hang it in the mouth, just don't use it.
Train to the principle of brideless riding.

I'm not clear on what you mean by "going around hollow." Can you clarify for me?



It is so challenging to have to deal with what you know is right, and what you have to do to deal with judges. Frustrating, no?

The hunter jumper judges (not being from the newer "hunt seat" as per Caprilli and Litauer in the 50's and sixties East coast schools), were furious that my students jumped their horses freely, even in cross country (called 'eventing' now I think) and wiped out their own students who rode feet forward, hanging on the horses mouth.

It still makes me smile.

At least now lightness is accepted everywhere and no one will make you haul on the horse's mouth to prove anything....or...oh dear, PLEASE don't tell me they will. I don't think I could handle that.

A final thought, if you haven't mentioned it already. Keep a journal (here if you would be so kind) and pics and vids, pics and vids.

You WILL have a salable story when you are done, no matter the outcome.

I'm practically holding my breath. And I want a signed copy of the book and or video.

Donald Redux

_________________
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.

Peanut Kickin is that flat stride, where the horse has it's nose low in all gaits and there is little or no rise to the stride. The horse balances always on the forehand. The canter is particularly wierd. It's barely a canter and actually hard to discriminate from the trot if you only watch the front half of the horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Ybhhy3lZg

My dial up is too slow to see all of this video, so I'm not sure how good or accurate it is. But if you go to youtube and type in Western Pleasure, you'll see plenty of videos of this type of competition.

Thank you. Yes, I'm familiar with horses 'ridden' on the forehand. I actually taught students how to do that...so they could exercise the horse through it's entire range of possible frames.

In fact, it makes for a nice 15 to 30 second "reward," in the form of a release of pressure. At the walk and trot...but at the canter? Yikes!

But to simply ride in that frame constantly, on purpose, intentionally? Yee gads! Rotated coffin bone and navicular disease, we sees yah comin'!

So I have a new term, "peanut rolling."

Thanks.

I like seeing a horse work, say in cutting or reining, with a low to the ground posture. For the few minutes, in fact only seconds, it takes to do the moves required. And they are not on the forehand, just low and rounded.

But lope or gallop on the forehand? Another indignant "YEE GADS."

Why is it that people get their minds locked into the "more is better," ideas.

It's no better to be all on the forehand than to be perpetually cramping the horse into exaggerated collection.

I had thought that moderation and gymnasticism would have penetrated everywhere in the horseworld by now. While I cherish some of the "good old days," as in the vaquero tradition, apparently there's plenty of the bad old days and bad new days still with us.

Thanks for your quick response, and forgive my occasional ignorance. Too many years away from things.

Now of course, the monkey is on my back again. I find myself entertaining the idea of turning my garden plot and potting shed into a horse paddock, and have gone to reading the "horses for sale," ads. Just what I was afraid would happen.



Donald Redux

_________________
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.

From Danee :


I am sure you are right I meet them more when I am out trimming,sometimes it is a wonder how far a little hay can go.


From Karen:

Thank's for the explanation , I always wondered what
they wanted achieve with it but since western riding didn't hold much interested for me I never invested so much time to exploring it further.
It just look weired to me.
From Donald:


First of, really nice pictures of the horses,sadly you
don't see them that relaxed as often in the show ring our days anymore.

As for the quote, I am not so sure when you see what is winning right now in the Dressage Ring.
I just saw a few days ago the new Kuer from Anky, she was winning with it in the high 80 % with it.
Their was more pulling in that Test as you think they would be or should be.

_________________
Kind regards

Christina

http://www.horsepro.net

On the "Ultimate Dressage Bulletin Board" they were comparing photos- one where the horse is obviously worked with a long neck and light rein in all gaits and frames, and another that by his muscling was obviously ridden in Rolkur but brought "up" for competition. Everyone agreed the horse was probably ridden in rolkur, but becuase there was NO SLACK in the rein on the second horse, they said it was a better ideal pic for dressage. The first ridder- heaven forbid_ had just a tiny tiny bit of curve in her curb rein... so OBVIOUSLY the horse is NOT ACCEPTING of the bit?!?!?!? That is why I participate on this forum and not that one.



My thoughts always! I have clients, I have high goals- My horses wear a bit a lot, but it is never used for control- light reminders for bend, access to relaxing the back... stretching into the bit as max, but I try to always keep bridle-less in the back of my mind. That is why this forum has been so great for me.



Head up, back tight. Inverted/ concave topline. Of course I usually use a rope hackamore to get soft lateral bend each direction which indirectly allows me to soften and raise the back, but occasionally I find horses where a french link snaffle is simple more effective. Even without time constraints I put the horse's back above his mouth in importance ( I also believe that making a horse usable/ridable is helping to assure him a good home). I'm sorry- I don't mean to make this thread about my thoughts/beliefs/ values on bits or anything else, but since I am in a position where I technically could get monetary gain by pushing a horse way too fast, my values are important to the topic!

I'm also in a position to show what can be accomplished without bits or restraints, but if I don't come in the top ten, no one will hear about it!!! I have to balancebetween what I like, and what the judges will like and still stay within my values! My other concern is that the horse WILL be sold to someone who probably WILL ride him/her in a bit, so to not prepare the horse for that would be irresponsible on my part!!!

Ahh, the frustraing details- and I didn't even get the horse yet!!! Of course, once I do, I'll know better what exact route to go and won't be thinking about it all day anymore




Do we have an emoticon for head swelling?!

I do plan on keeping a journel, but i won't put it on the web until after I've tried to get it published somewhere. (Just in case!!!) After April and the contest is all over, I can possibly email it to any one interested.

_________________
Learning to put the relationship first.

Oh dear. Just what I feared. The same old thinking. That the horse must submit and be "held" by the rider's hands.

The use of the term "accept the bit," is a euphonism, nothing more. It means hurt the horse's mouth. It always has and always will.

Even in lightness a constant never ending pressure can produce pain. Try it sometime. I've experimented with such things for years and years. I used to have my students assume a horse position and put a saddle and bridle for weight on their back and ask them to hold it for the entire 50 minute class. They'd be crying by 20 minutes. I'd end it. These were the things I taught them that resulted in the riding they did you see in the pictures of them at shows.

Even a bitless bridle, such as a cowboy halter, or caveson type. Put your finger against your nose where the bone turns to cartilage and notice in ever a relatively short time, minutes, your nose will start feeling very funny. And when you let go the feeling of pressure will stay with you for some time afterward.

If you can handle 20 minutes of that pressure I'd be surprised. I even pad my hackamore nose and jaw parts.



My thoughts always! I have clients, I have high goals- My horses wear a bit a lot, but it is never used for control- light reminders for bend, access to relaxing the back... stretching into the bit as max, but I try to always keep bridle-less in the back of my mind. That is why this forum has been so great for me.



Head up, back tight. Inverted/ concave topline. Of course I usually use a rope hackamore to get soft lateral bend each direction which indirectly allows me to soften and raise the back, but occasionally I find horses where a french link snaffle is simple more effective. Even without time constraints I put the horse's back above his mouth in importance ( I also believe that making a horse usable/ridable is helping to assure him a good home). I'm sorry- I don't mean to make this thread about my thoughts/beliefs/ values on bits or anything else, but since I am in a position where I technically could get monetary gain by pushing a horse way too fast, my values are important to the topic!

I'm also in a position to show what can be accomplished without bits or restraints, but if I don't come in the top ten, no one will hear about it!!! I have to balancebetween what I like, and what the judges will like and still stay within my values! My other concern is that the horse WILL be sold to someone who probably WILL ride him/her in a bit, so to not prepare the horse for that would be irresponsible on my part!!!

Ahh, the frustraing details- and I didn't even get the horse yet!!! Of course, once I do, I'll know better what exact route to go and won't be thinking about it all day anymore




Do we have an emoticon for head swelling?!

I do plan on keeping a journel, but i won't put it on the web until after I've tried to get it published somewhere. (Just in case!!!) After April and the contest is all over, I can possibly email it to any one interested.[/quote]

I thought that was what you meant by "hollow," but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

And while it's an ugly concept, even the word makes me cringe, it's so descriptive of the entire horse.

They lose who they really are. I've seen them. I've owned them. And I see owners in AND doing wonders with just such formerly hollow horses. Such patience. I know I did not do as well.

As for your journal, yes, I think I understand why you'd want to keep it private for now.

And to the constant worry about the responsibility to bit the horse because of his possible future owner...oh how well I know that one. Not just this current horse, but nearly all the horses I trained in my youth. I hated seeing them later in show rings, or returned to me "for a tune up."

You mention not wanting to make this thread about your struggles with the horsethics (my new word). My goodness that IS what AND is so much about. Here we CAN and want to struggle with this. Some one must. I do. Others here do. This is a good thing in my mind.

Your heart, and mind too, I think are in the right place. You might, from time to time not find full agreement with some principle you espouse, but here I know you will find support for your questioning of it.

How about giving a short course of lessons, even a day or two, to go with the horse to the winning bid?

Good for your reputation. And good for the horse. If you can find the time.

Why not write a letter of proposal for a book, or article, and shop it around the publications putting out horse books?

Has anyone written anything about this process you are going through? If so, could you put a different slant on it? Aim at a different market say? Periodical if they did a book, or book if only periodicals have been done this story already?

You might get some offers, and your name would be out there ahead of the herd, so to speak.

It's a standard procedure in the publishing world. I'm in it. But nothing remotely connected to the horse world.

We like to see proposals. And develop a relationship before if possible. Each of seeing if we can work together.

Donald Redux

_________________
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.