The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:33 pm 
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marleen wrote:
Impressive! Do you want to tell where you did this course and who is it from?
I'm very interested in what you've learned there.


Yes of course the link is www.thepenzancehorse.com

Gwen is a member of the AND forum.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:39 pm 
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Proloog wrote:
Now I understand. Wonderful :D. But what do you think - can this healing process happen slowly too or should there always be some sudden and huge turning point? Sometimes it can be seen how a horse opens himself to you piece by piece when the time goes by. Does that mean that he has not healed yet?

Anneli


Anneli, as a Reiki Master I believe that healing occurs in its own time and at its own pace. Previous to the episode that I described Gouch had been stuck in a sort of limbo, once the break through came he was able to begin the healing process and I think this is an on going thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:55 pm 
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ET wrote:
Proloog wrote:
Now I understand. Wonderful :D. But what do you think - can this healing process happen slowly too or should there always be some sudden and huge turning point? Sometimes it can be seen how a horse opens himself to you piece by piece when the time goes by. Does that mean that he has not healed yet?

Anneli


Anneli, as a Reiki Master I believe that healing occurs in its own time and at its own pace. Previous to the episode that I described Gouch had been stuck in a sort of limbo, once the break through came he was able to begin the healing process and I think this is an on going thing.


Hi Anneli and Eileen!

I think Eileen is absolutely right, based on my experiences with Stardust.

We have had definite "light bulb" moments where he's started to process things differently, but it's like peeling the layers off an onion in many ways. For a long time I kept waiting for the "he is healed, he is better, he is 'normal' now" moment, and I finally have realized that isn't a helpful way for me to think about him. (At least for us; other people and horses could have very different experiences.)

But, for Stardust and me, what instead seems to be working is simply having the goal of each day being as joyful and connected as it can, given what we're both feeling at the moment. This has been very freeing for both of us, I think, as I'm not hovering over him waiting for the enormous sign to go on saying "everything is done now! all better!" and he doesn't have to deal with me hovering over him looking for that! :-)

In the depth psychology tradition (Jung, Hillman, etc.), which is my academic field, there is a very different approach to working through the things that are difficult in our lives than clinical psychology. Clinical psychology often has the "cure it, work through it, banish it" model -- in depth psychology, the idea is that whatever experiences that we have had, good or bad, are a part of our psyche, and that learning to understand and embrace what has happened to us is a more helpful model. We incorporate our experiences into our sense of selves, rather than try to rid ourselves of the hard stuff.

(There is a lovely book by Thomas Moore called Care of the Soul that works this idea beautifully and accessibly, if it interests you. One of my favorites.)

I don't know that I can ever ask Stardust to "embrace" what has happened to him over the course of his life, as we don't have a way to talk about it, but this has helped me to think about his old traumas and sorrows as something that will in all likelihood be a part of his memory always. For me, his healing comes when he steps out of his expectations of how the world is going to treat him based on those experiences, and instead, is able to be with me, experiencing and anticipating pleasure rather than pain. He has come a long, long way with this! And most days, I see a little bit more openness about it, as another day goes by that he is happy.

He had severe physical and emotional trauma for a lot of years, so we've had a lot to work through. He is so much better! Is he "healed?" I don't think so, and I don't know if he ever will be in a finite way. Maybe there will be a day when I realize that all of his old stuff is gone, but four years plus in, that hasn't happened yet, and I'm not fixated on it. We just deal with where we are each day.

This may be less true of a horse who has suffered but who was released from that suffering faster, I don't know!

Hope this is helpful!

Best,
Leigh


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:31 pm
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Location: Estonia
Thank you, Eileen and Leigh! :D

I am still a bit worried about being a right person to my horses (because I know and understand them still too little :roll:), but your answers helped me very much.

Anneli


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:06 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:09 pm
Posts: 107
Location: Voorthuizen, Netherlands
ET wrote:
marleen wrote:
Impressive! Do you want to tell where you did this course and who is it from?
I'm very interested in what you've learned there.


Yes of course the link is www.thepenzancehorse.com

Gwen is a member of the AND forum.


Thank you very much :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:26 pm 
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Very interesting topic! I'm afraid I don't have any readymade answers either. Like Romy for me the 'just sit down and let the relationship happen before you proceed' isn't really the road for me. I want to interact, do, play and work together right from the start. For me the start is to teach the horse the rewardsignal (clicker or not) and that from now on we're going to have fun with food, and then move on to the walking together and doing stuff together. It works very well, both in regular clinics as with traumatized horses - but that is just my way, and other people can have very other ways of achieving the same.

Proloog wrote:
He says in his book: "I know without doubt that if I cannot establish a clear contact to a horse in a few minutes the he will not come around even after days, months, or years - no matter what I do."


The first thing that popped into my mind was: couldn't it be that he is right - for his own method? I can imagine that there are methods that only work in a specific timeframe in order to have real lasting results. For example, you can't do three half join - ups with the horse only running away, never approaching you, and then the fourth day expect a real join-up with the horse walking up to you with trust and all. Of course the join-up differs from what Hempfling does, but I can imagine that if that first struggle at the leadrope (the ones you see in his books and videos) or the first minutes of chasing the horse in the picadero doesn't have a happy end, the horse will only be further damaged and will start to mistrust Hempfling too. Although Hempflings method is very subtle, it does involve moving the horse away from pressure (letting him run away in the picadero those first times, before really turning it into lungeing) and in order to succesfully use pressure-release methods, the horse needs to understand and respect the use of pressure right form the start, because otherwise you will have a war at your hands.

And do write use about what you learn in his clinic! I love the way he uses his own body as a dancer in order to cue his horses. It might be natural or not to the horse, but becoming aware of my body (instead of just my tools) has opened whole new worlds to me when I read his book years ago.

By the way, a week ago I received a e-mail from a Dutch Hempfling representative who wrote about a Hempfling competition in which people with a great bond with their horse (not necessarily based on his own method) were asked to video their sessions with their horse and send it to her. The best would be selected to show their skills in real life on an event in Germany, where the winner would receive a whole year of coaching from Hempfling.

I thought it was a wonderful idea not to focus on all the wild horses for a change, but instead on good relationships and improve them even further. Has anybody heard about this too? Is it an international competition or just something for the Netherlands?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:31 pm
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Location: Estonia
Hi everybody!

I just arrived from Hempfling's seminar. I will gather my thoughts and write here about it soon. And of course, questions are welcome.

Anneli


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:06 pm 
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Looking forward to your thoughts Anneli!

:-)

Leigh

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:27 am 
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:lol: What Leigh said! I can't wait!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:54 am 
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Yay, I can't wait! :applause:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:49 am 
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I have a question!!!!

Can you please hurry??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm very excited to hear how it went!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:15 am 
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yeah me too!!!

I do agree that in a horse world, a horse needs to know in an instant what he is dealing with from a prey point of view.

I think that a 'clear content', being totally open to your horse makes it clear for the horse in an instant... BUT, his can only happen if one truly KNOWS one self.

Most of us, when we meet a horse dont have a clue what we will be doing with it in say a week's time... so how can we give the horse a 100% perspective on what is to come?

We are always doubtfull.. shall we do this, shall we do that... even when meaning well.

Only someone like Klaus who has an indebt knowledge of himself can give that to a horse.

I see now, that he is soo right!
As I get to know myself more and be my self more, interacting with horses becomes more natural and easy...

looking forward to Anneli's story!

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:36 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:31 pm
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Location: Estonia
Yeah, there is definitely a lot to tell, but I'll start pretty shortly.
First of all, I think that Klaus doesn't train horses. He trains humans through training horses if you know what I mean.
I do not agree with him in almost any aspect of training horses (he puts so much pressure on them to make a connection with them). I haven't seen this pressure on his DVD-s so clearly and his book gave me a idea that he doesn't use it (I do not know why, I guess I thought that he is so interesting for horses that they really wanna be with him, so silly of me :roll:). Soooo, a stupid illusion is smashed.

But what I really liked was his way of living - being here and now, enjoying life and not putting goals to achieve. I actually got a lot to think about my life, not just being with horses. I can see that this course was eye-opener for me about being with life and horses (they are part of the life too) not about training horses. How he trains doesn't suit me, but thanks to his course I can say it very clear and loud. :wink:

Anneli


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:48 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:09 pm
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Location: Voorthuizen, Netherlands
O no! That would be a real disappointment for me too!

Please, could you explain yourself about the pressure he uses? I did also never see that in video's or in books, neither have I heard from it from people who went to a clinic.....

O please explain :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:30 pm 
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I did hear similar things from other people who really took courses with him (less in the case of people just watching a one day clinic as he doesn't work with horses that much then).

I guess that with Hempfling it's like with many other trainers: follow their thoughts, and not what they do. ;) Because most of the time the thoughts are actually more inspiring than what they really do in practice (which is often indeed the old pressure-release). A problem with Hempfling however is that he has a lot of devoted followers who don't accept any analysis of what he does. When you ask about the teaching system he uses with horses, they immediately shut down and refuse to accept that he actually is using a correction/reward system as he does everything 100% out of the relationship. I think he does have a super relationship with his horses, if only because he's so calm and undemanding when he doesn't ask for anything, but that doesn't explain for everything.

That makes it quite hard to uncover what he really does with the horse, and what the horse himself experiences during training. So it's great that over here we have members who've actually seen him train for a longer period of time, so that we can share their experiences! :)

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