The Art of Natural Dressage

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 Post subject: What treats?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:20 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:03 am
Posts: 7
Location: New Jersey
I'm knew to clicker training, but the more I read, the more I like it :)

Just a few quick questions, what treats (food) do you give your horse? I want something (or things) that I can use and not get them sick.

Also, is there a certain pouch that is good to use? I don't want to use my pockets, and I rather have something that I can have all ready to go for our next session.

Thanks so much!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:18 am 
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
Posts: 1852
Location: Taiwan, via NZ
Hi ?,
I use a variety of different things..
Carrot.. but cut up into the tiniest pieces, so that one carrot will last about 300 clicks I think :lol: , and apple the same way... I don't think half a carrot or apple with harm a horse.
Sometimes I use a little of the feed that they get in their daily ration, and take it out of their meal, sometimes broken up alfalfa cubes.. once again, it's only a tiny amount each click. Even grass they'll work for, funnily enough. It seems it's not really the food itself.. it's the the fun and challenge of earning it, and knowing that you're pleased with them. So, you don't need to feed a whole handful for it to be a treat.
Occasionally they get a "jackpot" .. which could be anything that they really love. That keeps things even more interesting and can mark some extra special attempt.

I use a hip pouch to keep the food in, but anything that feels comfortable for you will work.
:) Sue

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,
But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]


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 Post subject: Click and REWARD
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
Posts: 3688
Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
Ah, the question of what to use for treats.

Not that it's my original idea, but I do want so much to try the non-food rewards. I have an Insulin Resistant horse, and so food has to be carefully screened for starch and sugar low content. And besides, food is always messy and encourages mugging.

I want to find, and probably can more easily, and develop scritching and scratching for reward.

I know horse's love it as you so often see them trying to get each other to scratch the itchy hard to reach places.

Now if I can put away the treat bag and just use my fingers ...

Donald R.

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Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 6:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:03 am
Posts: 7
Location: New Jersey
Thank you so much Sue!

I think I'll try carrots first and see how well that goes over. I also have some peppermint and apple treats that I'm sure I could use in the mix as well :)

I'm so excited to start this!

Darylann


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:10 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:03 am
Posts: 760
Just read through all the posts. One thing I wanted to add is to make an effort to find out which treats your horse likes best and then save those for special times, like a jackpot. I'm planning to try at least 50 different foods. Variety could also help in itself.
Birgit


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:46 am 
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
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Location: Taiwan, via NZ
Yes, I do this with Sunrise!! I save carrot pieces for special things, It's really effective to build up her excitement and energy.. I give for example pellets for a walk, slow movement, stretch, then if she gives me something higher energy, she get's carrot, and that really gets her excited! :D Read this in dog-training article that Brenda posted a link to and it's brilliant!!

SUe

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:03 am
Posts: 1351
Location: Washington, Maine USA
Birgit wrote:
Just read through all the posts. One thing I wanted to add is to make an effort to find out which treats your horse likes best and then save those for special times, like a jackpot. I'm planning to try at least 50 different foods. Variety could also help in itself.
Birgit


Hi Brigit!!

I would love to see your list of foods to try, and your results too! Because my horses need low starch/sugar I haven't found much variety in what they will work for??

Apple and carrot pieces pieces are their favorites, of course they are sweet too! I use a low starch/sugar feed as well, but that is still high in calories. Sunflower seeds are o.k. Thin hay cube slices and Safe Starch forage is good as a low value treat.

I have tried some veggies, like lettuce and broccoli, but would love to hear what low cal veggies others have used with success??

I think Glen uses rice cake pieces??

Brenda

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
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Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
Branda, for easy to carry hard pelletized low starch treats you might want to look at LMF's (I think they are made by a company in Canada named Crown Feeds...but not sure) low starch horse supplement. It's what I use with Altea (Insulin Resistance victim). She doesn't go crazy over them but likes them enough to be an effective reward treat.

These are the two NSC products, one of which I use. I'd run out to the feed room and check which for you but doubt it matters. You can look at the ingredients on the cite pages below.

I presume you have an IR problem or risk of one with your horses so with this you can check our "balancing." And of course determine just how much "treating," you can do in any given day without going outside their sugar and starch limits.

http://lmffeeds.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=20&zenid=01e200b353d5713b4e628f4871ea9f95

http://lmffeeds.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=22&products_id=21&zenid=01e200b353d5713b4e628f4871ea9f95

The one area I'd have a concern with is the Selenium content. I've learned that no horse on a supplemental diet where the supplement contains any Selenium should have a salt block with it in it. IR horses should have common table salt with Iodine, and nothing more apparently.

Other minerals should come in their supplemental feed. This is from my vet's equine nutritionist consultant we used for my mare, including her blood work, and her hay analysis from the source I get her hay.

We feed a teaspoon of Magnesium Oxide per day, as that is the missing mineral in her feeds. Cheap stuff and self life seems to be infinity.

Darn bother, but better than risking colic/founder/Laminitis.

Donald

_________________
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:03 am
Posts: 760
Hi Brenda,
I can see how you have an extra challenge, there, and so has Donald, IR is so tricky to deal with. I'm wondering if other kinds of nuts are ok, from all the reading I've done on IR in people moderate-fat is ok and does not lead to weight gain unless lack of exercise is a problem. The Atkins diet was developed for people who have IR. Really not sure if that transfers to horses.
I wonder if one could easily make treats from soy flour and ground nut flours. Again, transferring from what I know about human nutrition, I know that many foods, if introduced regularly over a course of about 6 weeks, possibly mixed with existing rations, will not only be accepted, but over time actually preferred and could then be used as rewards. I'm thinking of all the "boring veggies" that are low-sugar, cucumber, celery, green leafies like turnip greens etc. . I used to really dislike most green veggies, until I discovered chinese cooking (my husband is Chinese-American) and learned that these can all be prepared without water but stir-fried in oil and flavored with spicy sauces. ;) I wonder if small amounts of berries would be ok for an IR horse (I guess only affordable if you could can find them wild or in your garden) for special treats. They have a moderate amount of sugar but lots of fiber with it.
My daughter loves to cook and bake goodies for her horse. I might make this a little research project for her. :yes: :clap: :clap:
Look what I found in the fridge this morning:

Image

This one is not low-carb :smile:


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:49 am 
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
Posts: 1852
Location: Taiwan, via NZ
Birgit, I agree.. fat is not the prob.. it's sugars. Actually we feed our IR prone horses extra fat in the form of high quality oils as we find it actually helps them to lose weight and pigout less.

:f: Yay for stir fried vegies!! (My husband is chinese too.. Taiwanese! I'm not allowed to say he's chinese. :green: ) But tell me... does anyone actually have a horse who eats BROCOLLI???? Mine think it's disgusting stuff! :D We use leaves off their favourite trees for treats too.. Faves are bamboo, ficus, one I don't know the name of but they are crazy for, and a flowering shrub - which is contraband so we have to sneak it when my husband isn't looking.

Cheers,
Sue

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:32 am
Posts: 106
Location: Marlborough, New Zealand
Hi I use lots of different treats really whatever I have on hand at home- from breakfast cereals (like weetbix muesli,ricies,cornflakes etc), biscuits, bread,crackers, as well as fruit and veges (bananas, carrots, apples, plums, nectarines, cherries etc). I generally save their feed though for meal times.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:26 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:03 am
Posts: 760
Sue,
I wanted to follow up on the healthy oils. One of the best ones for weight loss (for people and animals) is virgin coconutoil (not the hydrogenated kind which is terrible). It is a saturated fat, but has positive effects on HDL cholesterol in people and is digested differently from unsaturated fats, which makes it very easy on the thyroid. Hypothyroidism is a very common cause of obesity in people, wonder if that's the case in horses, too? In any case, coconutoil is very high in lauric acid, which is what makes the difference. It also does not go rancid without refrigeration even in hot climates for several years which makes it great for emergency food supplies. For more info on this look at Cherie Calbom's book "The coconut diet". The recipes are not great but the research convinced me and incorporating virgin coconut oil into my diet is working beautifully for me to maintain weight.


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 Post subject: Re: What treats?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:10 pm
Posts: 45
Quote:
does anyone actually have a horse who eats BROCOLLI????

Yes, I do :D He eats the stalks, actually - I started by experimenting with what was left over from our dinner, and broccoli stalks are the most popular. Spinach is soundly rejected. Parsley stalks he also likes a lot. He will eat turnip and cabbage but not as keenly. Fruit wise, he has never refused any fruit - and all the horses eat blackberries from the bushes when in season, so I sometimes pick some when we're walking out in hand and use them as treats.

I have tried useing celery as a food reward, but while it is eaten, it is minimally reinforcing :) Orange peel, however, is a good food reinforcer! Dried banana slices also work very well.


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 Post subject: Re: What treats?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:19 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:08 pm
Posts: 25
Location: Denmark south/west
Hi Birgit ! ;) :f:
I am very happy that you mention that coconut-oil :cheers:
I have two IR horses (the girls) and one is a small rescue horse, who have suffered a leg injury in the past, which means that she can not be ridden , lounged or do any special exercizes !!
In addition to this she has suffered several attacks of laminitis before she came to me........really difficoult. :ieks: ....I use a diet low in sugar and starch, and hay which is also low in sugar (allways get it analysed).
Still she is mildly overweight, although she gets the very minimal she needs to be healthy !!
Do you think that adding that oil to her diet, will help her maintain a resonable weight ?
Best wishes Lisa


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 Post subject: Re: What treats?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:29 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:32 am
Posts: 106
Location: Marlborough, New Zealand
Hi does anyone know how much coconut oil is in copra. I add it to feed in winter as a filler.Its meant to be fattening like barley.

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