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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:06 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:03 am
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After some hesitation I decided to be brave and start this topic after reading through some recent posts that reminded me how important, yet how difficult to communicate about, the issues of religion and politics are in our lives.
I'll start by saying that I don't know if this topic would belong here or in the AND lifestyle section, so please move it if it belongs elsewhere.
I have found that for many people nowadays both religion and politics have become somewhat taboo issues in many social circles at least in the United States, definitely more than sex. Emotions often run high when sharing one's beliefs and maybe for good reason, these issues can be very close to our heart.
I have found both issues very important at times when exchanging our experiences and world view about animals in general and horses in particular. I would love to learn about others spiritual experiences relating to horses and share mine as much as sharing emotional experiences. I would like to learn from others perspectives about fruitful ways of living in community that are different from my own. Most people believe that we are spiritual beings and that we need to live in community with others. Therefore I thought about how we could have the benefits of sharing our experiences and knowledge in these areas without the potential pitfalls.
Josepha already addressed this issue by saying that we could use the same guidelines as in discussing training styles.
What I wanted to suggest as a help is this:
1. Looking at politics as "the process by which groups of people make decisions." This definition comes from the first sentence of the Wikipedia definition. This would leave out party politics, both national and international, and allow us to talk about issues instead.
2. Looking at "Spirituality" as opposed to "Religion". These words have, of course many different legitimate definitions and I am just giving my own very simple one here to see if it would be helpful. I see spirituality being about my personal experience of the supernatural and the effect it has on how I live my life, including moral decision making, priorities etc.
My spirituality could be an expression of a recognized religion or it could be a mixture of several or it could just be me.
Religion is usually seen as representing beliefs or doctrines, traditions and institutions. Religion is in my experience often what we say when we mean spirituality and will often lead to defensiveness when talked about. For some of us one or both of these issues might not be very important and that's ok, too. Looking forward to hear what you all think. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:10 am 
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I try to always keep the focus on this being WHAT I DO and MY EXPERIENCE and HOW I LIKE TO THINK OF THIS and THIS IS HOW IT EFFECTS ME. Some people think that in speaking that is obviously the case and that no umbrage should be taken when they spew THIS IS THE WAY IT/HE/SHE/THAT IS, but I think it is worth making the effort and being sensitive to those who are hurt and distracted and put off by that sort of expression. Maybe because I am that way, but still ;) I believe one's communication can carry the weight necessary even in this gentle manner and it is worth it to keep everyone communicating and relating. DO I have some strong ideas and opinions honed over decades of experience and careful consideration? You bet. But if I want true engagement, I find it is easiest to not simply inform people that this is how it. I learn more that way, too.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:45 pm 
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hi there. i will have to think a while and have my brain turned on befor i really write in this topic. :D you are very brave Birgit :yes: but i think that you have put this very well.

i do think that there is an element of spirituality to this deep connection with horses, and i think in working with these magnificent creatures, i feel that there is alot to learn above and beyond the obviouse. i think that there is something sole searching in this.

:clap: so well done on an interesting post!!! i will have to have had a decent night sleep befor i feel up to adding to this! :)

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:57 pm
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I defnitely find horses very spiritual, I often say that they are my masters on my path to enlightenment. My own personal gurus... :love:
I find that I can talk to some people about religion if we are able to discuss things in order to understand each others ideas and exchange information, or to find things in common where there appear to be differences. It helps if one can also agree to differ on certain points. The difficulty starts when people have a view point and do not want to discuss it, but state is as absolute fact and refuse to listen to another viewpoint that is equally as important to the other person. That is when it can be unpleasant. So it is very brave of you to start this topic! I look forward to new ideas and insights. :yes:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:04 am 
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We have spoken much about spirituality here. It seems inevitable that it is intrinsically intertwined in our journey with horses, doesn't it? So of course it is welcome discussion.

Politics? well, as you say, if one can leave party politics out of it, then perhaps...I for one avoid discussing politics.

If you explore and read in the Emotional and Mental connection section, you will find a great many discussions on spirituality that you can contribute to, or of course you can begin a new topic if one does not already exist that fits with what you would like to discuss. But please read some of the topics that already exist so we are not duplicating topics unnecessarily.

I would only ask that you tread thoughtfully if you wish to discuss specifics of religion. Keep the peaceful and open feeling of this forum foremost in your mind.

Your posts should never be read as an absolute truth (as you have already indicated and Natalie too!), because for every person here on this forum, there is a personal, absolute truth. Please be careful to not tread on another's truth. :f: :f: :f:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:08 am 
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For Millenia horses have been the ones to teach humans to find and get to know their true selves. (Noblemen, kings, emperors and knights all took lessons from these great Equine masters).
This part of interacting with the intellectual being horse was almost lost due to the way sociaty was structured the last I'd say 500 years or more.

Now, as we humans finally move up to a higher level (for a lot of people thanks to horses), this important part of human eductation is acknowledged again.
This is the very core of our Academy TAONARA by the way.

It is said on the AND webside that we view horses as intellectual spiritual beings so we can not get around that.
One does not have to believe the same though, to be part of this forum, that is the beauty. :yes:

But being with horses this way... I see people turn around all the time :)

Politics... I can not argue about parties or programmes.
For me only the big picture counts and I think most politicians lack seeing the big picture.
If we take care of our planet and each other, the rest will come natural.
If we take care only of economics, the rest will surely suffer.
Prove of this we have seen galore throughout history.

For me, if it were politics or any other subject all is very simple:
Just treat others, they way you want to be treated yourself.
Take care of our great mother and her children first.
Think out of the box. Allways make every choice from your heart.
With every thing you do, think why and find logical reasons that benefit as much as possible.

I think we should start over new completely. The old form of society does not fit the new rising enlighted mind I see all around me.
But I also think we do not have to do any other thing than act on the impulses stirring up inside of us to get there where we need to be.
Many people end relationships, marriages, quit jobs, sell their house, move...
It is all about 'hearing the voice inside again' so I think. They tell me, it is as if they woke up all of a sudden.

This is an exciting time to live in... the old is trying to cramp on, scratching to stay in place, the new is gracefully taking it's place.
We do not even have to fight the old ways that held us back for so long.
Just let it go and pay no attention to it any more.
It will dissapear in good time.

Now is a time like we have seen several times before in history, transformation taking place. (Astrologists read it in the stars and planets.. they take the same place as before every major transormation on Earth).
From dinosaur to mammal, from dark ages to rennaissance, from 'economic prevails' to caring and living again.

From living to being.

Prove to me is for instance this forum and all the things I as a spiritual person can say out loud without being ridiculed, as I would have been no less then 10 years ago :)

The economoc crisis is only there to help us, if it was not for that, we would perhaps stay in our zomby like state.
Now, we have to wake up... and smell the lovely roses :)

Warmest regards,

Josepha

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:15 am 
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Josepha, your words are lovely, and I think you speak the feelings of so many others here. This indeed is a time of great awakening, you can feel it all around you.

I too don't want to enter into a disscusion on religion, it's such a personal thing, and not one person is wrong, that is their religion, thats how they see the world, how can I expect others to see through my eyes.

The only thing I can say is that I think we are entering a time where we now realise that for so long we have been looking outside ourselves for all the answers, when all along we already had them, the Holy Grail is here, inside us all, when that discovery is made, we can truly connect with the higher beautiful energies, we can act on instinct, we can have empathy for others,no matter how bad they have been, we can be an equal to the animals, look at nature once again in a whole new way, all the things that have kept us in the dark for so long are becoming clear, the veil is lifting.

I think we are starting to see mother earth again in her full glory, and as we look inward, we start to see how we fit in, we are part of the whole glorious play, as are the animals, the trees the flowers, the water that flows, when we realise this, the feeling is amazing, it's like discovering ones family again after a very long and dark seperation.

As for Politics, well, maybe I feel we are rising above that system, sometimes they all just seem like children, desperatly holding on to old ego bound systems, still praying to the systems of power and greed, but I'm sure these systems will fade with time, the financial system is crumbleing because of greed, and this needs to happen. For many in the western world money is there god. They have neglected there enviroment and their own spirituality in favour of materialism, huge corperate companies have cashed in this material side of humanity and crushed so many to sell on to the few who believed what they were buying would bring them happiness, with no care for who was crushed along the way. The world can no longer support this system, she has suffered too much damage, and so it is time for us all to change, and as Josepha says, we are living in exciting times indeed.

So all I can say is look inward, let your horse show you the way, it's going to be a great ride :f: :f:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:21 am 
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Oh Annie, you've said it much better then I did!

Quote:
The only thing I can say is that I think we are entering a time where we now realise that for so long we have been looking outside ourselves for all the answers, when all along we already had them, the Holy Grail is here, inside us all,


YES!!! I sooo believe that ! :ieks: :clap: :clap: :clap: :cheers: :alien:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 4:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:57 pm
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Josepha and AnnieB, how well put! :) .
I always said the economic crisis was the world coming back into balance again, as we have become people of excess and not thinking about how we are to fit into the world with nature. I always said politics was driven by economics and what is there to balance and contain the economics if we do not do it for ourselvses? Here in the UK I have felt for so long that our politicians are only treating symtpoms all the time and if we teach people to respect themselves and others and to care for themselves and others, and to honour the world we live in, we would not need to worry about how to control crime and violence because how can somebody who cares and respects themselves and others be violent and greedy? It is our hearts that need to speak first tempered by our intellect and when they work in balance everything becomes peaceful and beautiful. :f:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:03 am
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Wow, so many wonderful thoughts. Rather than quoting them all I just want to say that this gets me exited because I see that we are all touched in a similar way by being around horses (and other animals as well, and by nature in general) :)
I suspect that what many of us are learning from being with horses in our lives, other people learn through gardening, hiking in the wilderness, watching birds, watching kids... who knows. I can't wait to see how much more we will know in another year, what direction this world will go. In spite of all the pain around us there is hope for sure, and this forum is a beautiful example of it. :cheers: :cheers: :f:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:44 pm 
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Josepha wrote:
From living to being.

Prove to me is for instance this forum and all the things I as a spiritual person can say out loud without being ridiculed, as I would have been no less then 10 years ago :)

The economoc crisis is only there to help us, if it was not for that, we would perhaps stay in our zomby like state.
Now, we have to wake up... and smell the lovely roses :)

Warmest regards,

Josepha


YES!!!

We tried so hard back in the late 60's early 70's and then it just plain pooped out. Perhaps that was a time of gathering. A time to prepare and wait. A time to weed out what didn't work ( i.e. drugs) and add gradually to a base. Then such movies as Koyaanisqatsi and Native Elders speaking out -----

Interesting but scary at the same time. Change is terrifying to most people.

But it is time. The way we have been living is unsustainable and I'm happy to read about all the various people around the world who are seriously making a change.


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