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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:43 am 
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Edit by Romy: This topic was split and put together from discussions in Baca's and Titum's diaries.

Anni wrote:
How would you define what it means if the horse is "MY" horse?


To answer this I will have to explain in a broader way. In my life there has always been a distinction between the people (and horses) that I find it easy and comfortable to interact with and those that I am attracted to.

For me it's easy and comfortable to interact with clear personalities, those that are easy to read and open in what they want. For example, the epitome of this is my best friend Leon (with whom I just spent the evening, so this exampe is very present for me at the moment). He is open in what he thinks, sometimes even a bit "on people's toes" and I feel ever so at ease with him because I am getting the most direct feedback. He seems like an open book to me. I do not mean to say that he isn't complex or not interesting, but whatever he does, it feels understandable for me. Pia and Summy are like that as well. So this is great, but I would not fall in love with these people or horses. I do love them like loving a brother or sister, but not like a lover. It's this comfortable "best buddy" kind of relationship, and indeed all my long-lasting friendships are with people like that.

And then there is those that I am attracted to. In horse terms, Titum has some of that, but also Imperia. There is something "complicated" about them. In the human world, I have always been attracted to people that were labled evil or bitchy or difficult. I cannot put my finger on what exactly it is about them, but with those people and horses I usually feel that there is something very sensitive and mysterious about them. At the same time, I could get very annoyed with them, but no matter if positive or negative, they always stir my emotions.

For a horse to be MY horse, I think I am still waiting for this latter kind of feeling. And as much as it annoys me sometimes that Baca is a bit intransparent for me at times, it might be just that what makes him a possible candidate for becoming MY horse one day. This slight tendency of NOT being clear but always inviting some interpretation, or also just leaving it open, making me observe and be okay with the option that I will never quite understand. And no, I do not presume to say that I do understand the first kind of personality, but subjectively it feels like I do, even when I might be as much off track as I am with the second kind.

I hope that this makes some sense? :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Bacardy
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:57 pm 
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How would you define what it means if the horse is "MY" horse?


I am so happy, I can say, that I have found MY horse.

And thinking about what you wrote, Romy, I wondered, what makes Zermatt MY horse.

Firstly, he is a personality, who I admire, but who at the same time irritates me, because he is so sensitive, clear, consequent and strong and at the same time he has got so many fears and due to his clarity and strength, I guess, he is showing them frankly.
Then, he is a personality, that feels so familiar for me to be with. And when I considered why, I came to the same attributes, I mentioned before... :funny:

I admire him for his strength, but it is this, combined with his openly showed "weakness", what allows me to come very close to him. I know from myself, that, if I admire someone too much, I am not able to interact easily. I guess, I distance myself by feeling too weak to face that (well, what I perceive as) pure strength. Sometimes, though, I don t feel to weak for that, but I am purely not interested in that. When someone is a bit too "weak" or lacking a loyalty to himself, in what way ever, I loose this feeling of getting drawed to this person as "the one", as well. In the end, it is a small range, I seem to talk about. Zermi is exactly in this/my range of intense attraction. It just fits. And if something like this happens, I love the hole being, also the so called weaknesses.

I am sure though, there are more aspects involved. I still have to think more about it, thanks for inspiration... :f:


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 Post subject: Re: Bacardy
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:39 pm 
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Strange... It just occurs to me that I have never thought of Mucki as MY horse, or the ONE horse. It never crossed my mind that I could change Mucki for another horse, sell him, give him away :ieks:. He always was like a child to me - in the sense that I was responsible for him in good and in bad times.
It's exactly like I have no idea how my yet unborn son will be like, but one thing is absolutely clear: I will love him unconditionally, as best as I can. There will be times when I will be mad at him - especially when he becomes as stubborn as his father ;). But that will never make me question whether he is MY son.

And I strongly believe in a reciprocity in relationships that will over time mold both partners into a similar - or better: compatible shape. Provided that both partners are willing to accept the challenge of a true and deep relationship.
It's a bit different with children, because they naturally have to detach from their parents one day, but I think that a human-equine relationship is somewhere between that of parent & child and equal peers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:30 pm 
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anat wrote:
How you perceived Summy and Titum at the beginning and came to adopt your daughter Pia.


Oh, she will have lots to tell you about that - she completely did not like wild little Pia in the beginning. :twisted: :funny:

This is also something I see in every child, that they are changing their favourite horse after a while. Often that fits with their own development. For example, when Azhar was new here he was a total Pia person, but then she was the only one who matched his hyperactivity. Later he calmed down and became the soft and careful person that he is now, and then Titum was the perfect horse for him.


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 Post subject: Re: Titum
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:47 pm 
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Romy wrote:
This is also something I see in every child, that they are changing their favourite horse after a while.
Now how is that with us grown-ups when we choose a horse? Are we so settled in our character that we would really choose the fitting horse for us? Or would we indeed need the same process like Romy described with the children to find our "one horse"?
For me the question does not really apply, because I have only one horse and that won't change very soon I guess. But I wonder if I would choose another if I had more to choose from?

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 Post subject: Re: Titum
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:42 pm 
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Now how is that with us grown-ups when we choose a horse? Are we so settled in our character that we would really choose the fitting horse for us? Or would we indeed need the same process like Romy described with the children to find our "one horse"?


lately there is this book that keeps popping up in my mind called 'Northern Lights' by Philip Pullman (they made a movie out of it called 'the golden compass'), it a children's fantasy book that Erez read to me couple of years ago (he dose that :) ).
the story was OK but what i really liked about that book was that in it's imaginary world every human had his soul externally within an animal that was connected to him and couldn't be separated (would cause death of the 2 entities)

from wiki
Quote:
In this world, humans' individual souls naturally exist outside of their bodies in the form of sentient "dæmons": animals that constantly accompany, aid, and comfort their humans. Children's dæmons can freely and instantaneously change their appearance into that of any animal; once they reach puberty, however, all people's dæmons settle into one permanent animal form.


i remember really identifying with this feeling, with the connectedness i feel for the horses, they carry such a big part of me... (much more then any of the 4 legged animals i have although i love them all).

but i don't know about the notion of a 'one' horse.

for a long time i always felt Tequila was that 'one horse' for me, but then came Geronimo and whoooo :love: he took a big part of my soul, (maybe he is this one), but i still find the connection to Tequila so different and 'crucial'. we talk differently. maybe more girl talk, i feel she touches other parts in me that Geronimo cant. then came Pip, this little peanut of a horse found a new and unique way to reach out. he touch my heart in the way he interact with any creature he meet, his giving and kindness, i cant imagine my life without him now...and
lately even Hercules which always felt like he landed at the wrong human open for himself places in my heart and started to connect and crate deeper bonds between us.

though i miss sometime the clear feeling that there is just this ONE horse.

and maybe there are periods of time that i'm more drown to one of them, connect easier or pay more attention to one but at the end of the day they all own me. as one entity

i remember Romy, you said in the past that you think Baca could be that 'one'. do i remember correctly? do you still feel that way that you have a 'one' horse?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:29 pm 
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Mr has always been the ONE for me ..and I am so happy that we have found each other ... MY horse .. though not in the sense that I own him , as I have never - could never - think like that , But in the sense that we both ''fit'' each other , mentally , physically in every way . It is something that I have felt since the moment we met . It is not something that I can really explain easily , which is part of it - Our connection , whatever you want to call it , is so natural to me , that explaining it is so hard . :friends:
His personality is much like mine ..fiercely wild and free - and it is so joyful the freedom and love that we share . For me it is very easy to understand , except and like aspects of someone's character .
But with Musti it I have never even thought of it like this , every aspect of his character comes so naturally to me and I admire and love every part of it .... we were made for each other , you could say :)

I know there are so many aspects of this .. I will think on it more :f:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:02 am 
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This is still such an interesting topic :) !

Ali wrote:
Mr has always been the ONE for me ..and I am so happy that we have found each other ... MY horse .. though not in the sense that I own him , as I have never - could never - think like that , But in the sense that we both ''fit'' each other , mentally , physically in every way . It is something that I have felt since the moment we met . It is not something that I can really explain easily , which is part of it - Our connection , whatever you want to call it , is so natural to me , that explaining it is so hard .


I always wished to find my "one" horse some day because I thought that this is the reason why it is so easy for some people. I thought, you just need the "right" horse. I still think that there might be a horse for everyone that fits perfectly but my need to find that horse has changed. Until now I never had the chance to search for a horse like that. Instead I had four very different personalities I took care of and they all were so lovely - even though that I couldn't see this until now when I have much more distance between the things that happened and what I think about it. Maybe that is why I see many things quite differently today.

Another thought was that I want to establish a friendship between the horses and me. Lately I found out that this thought isn't so helpful for me. I'm not a person with many friends. I've only two, and one of them is like a sister for me. There are many acquaintance but that is not the kind of connection I want to have with a horse.

Within the last year I was often inspired to think about my family and what it means to live in such a family. To me it means that there are almost no expectations (like being polite, doing everything I'm told to do, getting myself under control so that everyone else feels good). Instead I feel as free as nowhere else: I can be angry and will easily get a response from my family members - I will argue with my mother, my sister will become grumpy, my brother will ignore me and my father will try to make me smile again and most of the time will be able to do so within one minute. But even though there won't be the most harmonious atmosphere, after that no one will be angry about me because I'm such a impolite, ruthless, annoying person. Sometimes we can change the atmosphere while interacting and that are great times, but often we decide to leave someone alone when this is what he/she wants and we can't make him/her feel better because he/she simply has a bad day.

I would like the horse to feel as free, accepted and loved the way I feel in my family. No one is supposed to "behave" but everyone gets better and better in finding his personal style in interacting with the other members. Everyone is accepted the way he is and feels and everyone is allowed and supported to grow into the person he wants to be. Sometimes that is very very chaotic and I think it would be difficult for many humans to life with us because it can be difficult when six persons are all showing immediately what they're feeling at one time. But when you are used to it, it gets easier than play act about your feelings (and imagining what the real feelings of the others are).

That are all circumstances I want to develop for the horse as well because I see them as the foundation for being able to develop in the best way and at the same time feeling comfortable, even when the horse or human doesn't have the best day.

I have to admit that since I'm reading in AND the interaction with my family gets better and better. I have more positive feelings and sympathy towards them. It gets easier for me to handle difficult situations, for example when we really have to do chores and my sisters and my brother aren't motivated. I can stay positive and calm and it happens more often that I can motivate them by saying "I also don't like that work. But let's do it together, I'll help you and we will be faster than alone!", when I had to shout and get angry in the past to make them do their tasks.

You can't choose your family members and I observe that the relationship in other families is often different. But for me, grown up in a family like mine, it is helpful to think about horses as family members instead of friends. It takes away the pressure to behave perfectly so that they choose to be my friend and lets my behavior be more authentic and appear naturally.

:f:


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 Post subject: Re: Titum
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:14 am 
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I think I'll completely leave out the topic of being one with a horse, because otherwise you might think I am a poor autist or a cold fish. ;) No, just kidding, but I'll focus on the change of horse preferences to keep it somewhat short.

Volker wrote:
Now how is that with us grown-ups when we choose a horse? Are we so settled in our character that we would really choose the fitting horse for us?


I wonder whether grown-ups usually have the opportunity to choose like that. We have a pasture with four horses and every horse wants and gets some attention from the children and me. Therefore, each of us is in the situation that he frequently interacts with different horses and therefore gets the chance to build a relationship with all these horses in the first place. I think this is different from a situaton in which you have one horse that you are the official owner of, and that horse is the only one you are usually dealing with so that most if not all of your experiences are with that horse.

Additionally, I think there are some other factors that make it more difficult. One is that I think many adults prefer clear structures - coming to the pasture and knowing which horse is "theirs", instead of coming there and being curious about which horse it will be today. The children are much more flexible in that, and for example Nora chooses Summy for walks more often than Pia, but she chooses each one of them sometimes. Like in any other aspects I am writing about, I am not claiming that this is the case for every child, though. You can ask Azhar which horse he wants to interact with and the answer will always be Titum. But from my experiences this fixedness is rare in children, whereas the flexibility is rare in adults.

Second, I think that many adults like making things big. For most horse owners that I know it is an important aspect of having a horse that their horse really is the ONE for them, and that this relationship stands out from other actual or possible ones. Of course it has to stand out in a way, simply because of the amount of shared experiences and the things you learn about each other. But I often get the feeling that there is more. That many adults want the relationship with their horse to be special in a principle way - this kind of "being made for each other". I observe the same with human relationships. My mother was a good example for this when she still was eager to find a male partner. Once she had a realtionship, this man was "the ONE" and there were hundreds of reasons why this one was better than almost any previous one, the logical consequence of everything, the one she had just been looking for all the time. I think it's an interesting psychological mechanism, this up-regulation of evaluations of the things people currently have and concurrent down-regulation of evaluations of other things. But it seems to me that this is not as strong in children, at least no those that I know. Or actually it could be just as strong, but their sense of having that one thing might not be as strong so that there is no clear target for the evaluation increase.

There might even be negative consequences if this mechanism doesn't work so well, namely some kind of fear of not loving enough what you have. Several times I have read that people felt guilty when their own horse wasn't the one for them - when they still loved the horse but said they could imagine to love other horses as well, or actually loved another horse more. I wonder to what degree these feelings get increased by reading all the big-love-once-in-a-lifetime stories and the words about connection and trust and being one with the horse, and all these other big concepts that are so wide-spread in the horse world today. I think that to a large degree it is a matter of fashion to blow things up and use more and more superlatives. But still it is setting at least an implicit norm, so if someone is not experiencing this, doesn't this mean that there is something wrong with him? Shouldn't he reconsider whether he really is a good horse person? Whether he should have a horse at all, when seemingly everyone else could have a so much better relationship with that horse?

I have drifted away from your question again, Volker. To sum it up, I think there would be much more variation in adults' preferences for horses if it was easier for them (practically and psychologically) to make these changes and reverse them. But please take this with a grain of salt as it has been written by someone who is obviously not fit in the once-in-a-lifetime feelings department. ;)

anat wrote:
i remember Romy, you said in the past that you think Baca could be that 'one'. do i remember correctly? do you still feel that way that you have a 'one' horse?


I never felt like I had a one horse, because for me it is exactly what you described, different special things with different horses (although for me the specific kinds differ from yours of course). Baca will never be the ONE and neither will any other horse, I believe, because I do not believe that for me this concept works. What I said back then is that I think he could be MY horse one day, which does not exclude that others can have that position as well. It's a matter of fit, not exclusiveness. However, I still don't know whether this will happen with him. I'll let you know if I do.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:56 am 
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That is indeed an interesting theme...

There are many points, that Anat and Romy wrote, that I can sign, observing children and grown ups.
I was always different though.
As a child somehow, I was torn by those extremely sensitive horses and I would keep on just caring for them until outer circumstances pulled us apart. At those times, I had only one horse to care for at a time. There was always one horse like that in the ridingschools, I still remember them all quite clearly . The other kids never cared for them. Those horses were too complicated, I guess. As I can remember it now, it wasn t about wanting clear structures or no surprises about what horse I get today. Instead, I was interested in those characters, I resume now. Obviously, I was never interested in just riding, I suppose, but in the things behind the riding. I do think though, that it was somehow important to me, that I was the only one interacting regularly with the horse...to be honest :blush:

Well these days concerning Zermi and my relationship, I can admit, that it is also about habits or rather being familiar with each other. I know Zermi more than any other horse and since I often help other horseowners, who are sick or in holidays, I have the opportunity to see that this is clearly one of the things I love about Zermi and me. When I did interact with other horses and come back to Zermi, it feels like coming home. We have cultivated our language, we both agree with and we know each other very well in the meantime.

What I wrote back then, was absolutely right in the beginning:
Quote:
And thinking about what you wrote, Romy, I wondered, what makes Zermatt MY horse.

Firstly, he is a personality, who I admire, but who at the same time irritates me, because he is so sensitive, clear, consequent and strong and at the same time he has got so many fears and due to his clarity and strength, I guess, he is showing them frankly.
Then, he is a personality, that feels so familiar for me to be with. And when I considered why, I came to the same attributes, I mentioned before... :funny:

This is our basis...

But in the meantime, both of us develope jointly, while influencing each other. The more time we spend together, the more we change congruently.
I would never ever want to exchange the horse. I am very interested in communicating with other horses, but on a more sketchy level. But the most interested I am in how far Zermi and I can go into depth with our interaction.

I often wonder about "friendship" . I also have very few friends and those, I have since a long time and it took a while, before I called them friends. I don t really know a good definition for friendship, I have to think about it. I don t really care, if I should call him a friend or not. He is an animal and has no ethics in the sense, we human have it. As a flight animal, he has to have a completely different perception of the world around and has to give different meanings to situations and relationships, than I do.
I know though, that I love to be with him and to which point I can trust him and that he takes me the way I am and I can take him the way, he is. If this is friendship, fine.

So to me, Zermi feels like the ONE horse and MY horse. But that doesn t feel to me like a sentimental mood. It is just the way it is. I don t know, if this might change one day, but I can t imagine it at all right now.
:sun:

Anni, your family sounds wonderfull...


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