Yes I agree Kathy, you are a wonderful addition to the forum!
Just wanted to say the same thing! So, once again: I'm very glad you joined us Kathy!
What a great discussion! The part about overshadowing the intrinsic motivation with extrinsic motivators really made me think... I always thought that clicker training can turn out all wrong, even with lots of rewards, but I couldn't quite put my finger on a possible cause. This is surely an important caveat for this kind of training.
I often experience how behaviours that I train with Mucki deteriorate or break down completely in some circumstances. Usually it correlates with a lack of motivation on my side - it seems like I cannot transfer the spark of playfulness in a credible way. In such moments even the most intrinsic rewarding things, like Jambette or Spanish Walk, cannot entice Mucki. I don't think that my reinforcement schedule changes that much to be the only cause for it, so there must be more to it than just the treats. Furthermore, in a session like that, all the treats in the world wouldn't change Mucki's attitude.
But sometimes I can make a turnaround when I can motivate myself in a believable way.
I also use the whip in different circumstances. In liberty work I use it often away from Mucki and behind me and I found it motivating in an encouraging kind of way. Of course, that's my interpretation and I can't know if Mucki sees it similar. But it has the same effect like I was using an encouraging body language, or raise my voice in a "come on!" sort of way.
It's a treacherous field, because it's so easy to lose myself in anthropomorphic analogies. I have mainly just Mucki to test my theories upon, so it will all remain very vague and led by 70% gut feeling.