The Art of Natural Dressage

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 Post subject: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:43 am
Posts: 209
Location: Herefordshire - UK
Wasn't sure where to post this so sorry if it is in the wrong place :blush:

I know that the BD do NOT allow horses to be ridden bitless.

However, what is likely to happen if I was to enter a dressage comp, not necessarily BD, just local low level stuff, with my bitless horses? Would I be able to compete but obviously be disqualified? Or would I just get sent home lol.

I really want to get out with my chaps and do some dressage, not really for the actual competition, just for the experience.

Any suggestions??

Many thanks in advance

xxxx

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:02 pm
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Location: UK Worcester/Hereford border
Maybe telephone Bromyard Equestrian or other local sites which hold competitions, ask if you can enter as 'Hors Concours' or 'HC' (which means ‘without competing’), and you will not be counted when calculating the competition placings? xx

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Location: Belgium/Tielt-Winge
sometimes if it is a real small competition and you ask it in advance they let you participate...
just tell them that the old masters first trained their horses without bits too and then evolved to a bit ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
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Location: provincie Utrecht
yes was it that easy Barbera :-)
i have had a huge discussion with the KNHS over here about bitless riding.
It is not only riding without a bit but it takes more.
They talk each time about the scala der ausbildung, and they said that bitless riding can not be the same as with bit.
They have an other collection, you get the discussion if they wanna leave the old rules, they have made them for more than 100 years ago. And they wont leave them at all. Not for those few crazy people who wanted a better live for their horses.
it is not about a better live for the horse it is about compete.....
it cost losts of money to changes the rules, train the jury about bitlessriding, making new books with the rules, new paperwork for the organisation, and two different prices if they win, because a bit rider wont accept a bitless person who push him away from the first price :-)
No there is a way more work to do......
and lots of people who realy wanna do contests without a bit and show that it is realy possible.
it will take over here some more months to make it come true.

over here if you wanna compete bitless you wont be accepted even with a Vet doc. you can not compete.
It is possible to compete in a horse concours because there are no hard rules because it is not official, no points etc.
So if you will take the risk to be sent home, you can try it. Over here you defenately send home :evil: so no one take the risk


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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 3:47 pm 
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Where does it say in Die Scala der Ausbilding, that you need a bit???
That is complete news to me!?

And why bother... the FEI is ... how to put this... not 'up to date' and old fashioned like sock holders.

Just start a new international federation... :roll:
If the engine is to old and broken to fix, just build a new one. More miles and better for the environment!

Gosh it's time for a new era... really. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:23 pm 
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There is already a new one started...just support it so it may grow! :f:
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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:23 pm 
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Quote:
Just start a new international federation...
If the engine is to old and broken to fix, just build a new one. More miles and better for the environment!

:cheers: :applause: :clap: :yes:

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:11 am 
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Thanks Danee! 8)

And yes Karen, I saw it, it's great :)

I was more thinking a long the lines of Holland and Belgium sorry... :blush: small country, small mind. :blonde:

Maybe in the future we can do the same, 'AND showings' with cordeo only and there are no required movements as we do not know what the horse will choose to perform. :alien:
Like with our last demo, where Owen only wanted to halt and show jambette :green:

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1983
Location: provincie Utrecht
Josepha wrote:
Where does it say in Die Scala der Ausbilding, that you need a bit???
That is complete news to me!?

And why bother... the FEI is ... how to put this... not 'up to date' and old fashioned like sock holders.

Just start a new international federation... :roll:
If the engine is to old and broken to fix, just build a new one. More miles and better for the environment!

Gosh it's time for a new era... really. :roll:


sorry i can not explain it good in english but give it a try.
you need a bit otherwise you dont get the right contact and acceptance if i explain it well in english.
aanleuning en nageeflijkheid. They have a sertain point of view about dressage and how it have to be look like, the complete sight of the horse and movement. They said that without a bit you dont get this. the under jaw must be relaxed and it is not relaxed when you ride without a bit. They said.....all these are not mine words.

All i can say that i have a total different point of view about contact and acceptance and the rest. Thats why i wont ride competition. i can not do it as they prefer to see. i see something completly different then they do.
We would never come close.
i bother because people over here will compete bitless between the bit horses. To make a statement???
and we wanna help them, so the NVBP try to do something for them and yes it will work, at least they think about it.
and there comes a trial next year, (i hope )somewere in april. People can ride bitless competitions.

unfortunateley there are less of people who wanna compete bitless. Most of them who ride bitless have more respect for their horses and wont compete at all. Those are the realy bitless riders, those who wanna compete bitless are mostly....and said again not all ofcourse some are real,.... because they have an injury in the horses mouth and still wanna compete during the healing proces.

i know...i know.....no AND thoughts......this is an other world ;)
as soon i have more info, somewere in december it think i will let you know..but then in dutch :-) more easy for me


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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 6:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
Posts: 3688
Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
inge wrote:
Josepha wrote:
Where does it say in Die Scala der Ausbilding, that you need a bit???
That is complete news to me!?

And why bother... the FEI is ... how to put this... not 'up to date' and old fashioned like sock holders.

Just start a new international federation... :roll:
If the engine is to old and broken to fix, just build a new one. More miles and better for the environment!

Gosh it's time for a new era... really. :roll:


sorry i can not explain it good in english but give it a try.
you need a bit otherwise you dont get the right contact and acceptance if i explain it well in english.
aanleuning en nageeflijkheid. They have a sertain point of view about dressage and how it have to be look like, the complete sight of the horse and movement. They said that without a bit you dont get this. the under jaw must be relaxed and it is not relaxed when you ride without a bit. They said.....all these are not mine words.


Attention moderators. Get me now before I lose it completely. :roll: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:

They claim without a bit you do NOT get relaxation but with a bit you DO? Too much. I'm used to working with a population that has just these kinds of "magical thinking," where up is down, down is up, and one can't have a heartbeat without assistance from "experts."

Outrageous.

I'm tempted to say to them, "let me know when you can get TRUE relaxation and tension in balance such as we have." "We might let you JOIN OUR FEDERATION." <snort>

inge wrote:

All i can say that i have a total different point of view about contact and acceptance and the rest. Thats why i wont ride competition. i can not do it as they prefer to see. i see something completly different then they do.
We would never come close.


What you point out, Inge, makes clear that WE are not going to change THEM, and certainly I'm with you, as I suspect most are, WE ARE NOT GOING BACK.

Once I am my horse make the connection through bitless riding it gives me almost real pain to even think of putting a bit in her mouth, let alone actually doing so. I WON'T.

So if I want to compete I have to find like minded people to ride with in competition.

Which logically leads to the next step, finding them, or helping them discover bitless and liberty work, and the cordeo, and asking over demanding, and cooperation over subservience.

inge wrote:


i bother because people over here will compete bitless between the bit horses. To make a statement???
and we wanna help them, so the NVBP try to do something for them and yes it will work, at least they think about it.
and there comes a trial next year, (i hope )somewere in april. People can ride bitless competitions.


Ah, that brings a happy smile to my face. :D :D :D

I have to wonder if there aren't people hiding out where I live who do or would like to do this: bitless riding.

inge wrote:

unfortunateley there are less of people who wanna compete bitless. Most of them who ride bitless have more respect for their horses and wont compete at all. Those are the realy bitless riders, those who wanna compete bitless are mostly....and said again not all ofcourse some are real,.... because they have an injury in the horses mouth and still wanna compete during the healing proces.


For those that "don't want to compete," I suspect they are thinking of competition as it now exists in the orthodox horseworld.

What if the "competition," consisted more of exhibition. That is, each horse showed how well he or she had his or her rider trained to be polite, to accept "no" as an answer, to encourage, to entice, to tempt, even to tease their horse into playing at dressage? :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny: :funny:

I'm inspired, as I just finished a session with Bonnie, a short one, where after she had her wild time, running down the dirt roads through the deep dark woods, kicking and bucking and sliding and turning, we took a little break then I asked her if she would let me lead her by the halter (she was not ever really haltered until just a few days ago). And what did she do? She said to me, "tease me with a treat and I'll not only go with you, I'll let you tug on the halter first." What a thrill. For me.

Heck, instead of "competitions," let's just have "meetings," "seminars," (in the academic sense where we all share and learn from each other), and guest "lecturers," in the old sense of "university," that came out of Europe during the Age of Enlightenment.

From my point of view "Competition," is dead dead dead. We can go so much further by other means. And gain so much more.

inge wrote:

i know...i know.....no AND thoughts......this is an other world ;)
as soon i have more info, somewere in december it think i will let you know..but then in dutch :-) more easy for me


I won't be able to read it, but that doesn't matter. I know where your heart is and probably a lot of what you'll say.

When the orthodox can take of their horse's bridles and ride with a cord around the horse's neck I'll be more inclined to be more attentive to their boundaries. I think I'll have a long wait, don't you?

Big hugs, Donald

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So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.


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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Donald, you crack Ralph and me up! You sure made our evening!

Gosh, I can't just go into this right now, I fall over from laughing.

I think my jaw is stuck, it's so tense... but then again, I am not wearing a bit!
ha! Now I finally know the problem! And shoot... i don't have any bits in my shop anymore :(
out to an other tack shop in the morning and cure that jaw!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:51 pm 
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WooHOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Donald wins the Brilliant Wildman of the Week Award!!!

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

NO moderation! Cheering you on!

xo
Leigh

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:49 am 
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Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
Josepha wrote:
Donald, you crack Ralph and me up! You sure made our evening!

Gosh, I can't just go into this right now, I fall over from laughing.

I think my jaw is stuck, it's so tense... but then again, I am not wearing a bit!
ha! Now I finally know the problem! And shoot... i don't have any bits in my shop anymore :(
out to an other tack shop in the morning and cure that jaw!!!


Oh my goodness. You have taken the bits out of your shop. I've tears in my eyes just thinking of that.

What a coincidence. I wrote what I wrote that you are responding to at 10 am yesterday. By 2 pm yesterday I was in the dentists chair, with one of the most painful injections (she hit a nerve dead center I guess) I've ever experienced, and for three hours she and her assistant ground, pried, pushed, pulled, pinched my lips, stretched the corners of my mouth, etc. THREE BLASTED HOURS OF IT.

All of me, but especially my back, ached badly. I was cranky but of course behaved myself and didn't strike, kick, or bite anyone ... and only now, as you say what you just said above did it come to me what the horse experiences that is so akin to what I did, and THEY HAVE TO DO IT EVERY TIME THEIR ARE RIDDEN in most cases.

I had to struggle with my tension, which made the pain worse. My back was being pressed on by the awkward chair (my old back operation took a lot of muscle out of my back -- and all the fat over an almost foot square area -- so the padding is all gone).

The horse with an undeveloped back must feel some of what I felt when they have a rider on their back.

But the mouth. Oh dear. Now I know. First hand. Metal on teeth, gums, lips. Pulling, pushing.

Big kiss to you and Ralph for the decision about bits. Big hugs.

Donald

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:54 am 
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The bits were gone end 2007 I think :)
Thought everybody new that I ran the first bitless tack shop in the world :applause:

Gosh Donald, how is the pain now?
Guess the last thing you would enjoy now is a bit in your mouth, huh?
Poor Don...
Get wel soon! :kiss:

For the rest I just side with Leigh :cheer: :cheer:


Sorry to mess up your thread yet again Sam!
But as one is doing this for so long, and people in high places somehow seem to lack all logic or don't seem to have knowledge of the subject they are ruling, you just have to laugh or else I think you shall go insane.
Btw this is not just about horses :roll: :green:

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 Post subject: Re: Bitless Dressage????
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 7:04 am 
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Oh, Donald, you have my deepest empathies.

I go back in for more oral surgery tomorrow. Again.

But at least they're knocking me out for this one...

...and I don't have a sore back!

:pet:

L.

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