The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:39 pm 
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Location: Austin, Texas, USA
HI Everyone - Thank you for all your great and thoughtful posts.
:bowdown:

I am incredibly overwhelmed with work this week and so do not have time to give them all the individual attention that they deserve. However, I have been chewing it all over and think I can boil it down thusly for now:

1 - Having a lesson at this point was helpful but also wound up having inappropriate requests within it and vaulted me into expectation land.

2 - Pretty much the basics apply - no expectations, patience, ground work, etc. Pretty much what I was thinking, but I am usually so doubtful of my own skills and knowledge.

3 - Trust myself a little more and do not look to others too much.

4 - Less with the bitless bridle, not the same.

5 - Experiment and see what happens.

And to Bella's credit I do not want you to think she is some wackadoodle or some balky, avoidant creature. She is kind and well trained, and it is the wonderful riding connection that we built previously that has me second guessing things now. We ride mainly on seat and leg with only support from the bridle.

I battled long and hard to get her out her horrible bit and then to help her straighten. I do not ride in heavy contact, nor am I hauler, to my credit. I am not targeting competitive levels or results. It just made me sad that this change seemed to erase all that previous success. I thought our ability to communicate through seat and leg, the delicacy with which I can use the bridle with her would translate to an easier transition that this. You should have seen her when we worked the circles, a totally new behavior from life with the bitted bridle, just stuck her nose way to the outside and counter bent hard. When I dropped all contact but the tiniest indication little wiggle on the inside rein (weight inside and down - fabulous teacher coaching the whole time, etc) she'd either drop her trot, canter, or occasionally soften in. While our halt at walk was fully seat based, none of that worked for the trot or the canter. Gag. It was sad.

Eep. Was that a defensive rant? I hope not. Really, no offense was taken (Jess :l: !), but I wanted to clarify where we were. Not superstars, but both solid, good, well trained ladies. :smile:

But, I'll just go slower. I sense a lot of walking in our future. Mounted and not mounted.

Now I just want to hear some traditional but moderately open dressage trainer explain while they all seem to think that connection with the bit is everything and connection without the bit is impossible. I really want to understand why they think that one extra piece of equipment makes all the difference in the wold. Maybe I should ask Michelle to sit down and spell that out for me, because it seems like such a knee jerk reaction. What is so different (other than pain) about cuing with or without it???????? How is responding with lightness when wearing a bit different than when not?????? Guess I'd better suck it up and send her some links to explore. Forging on with the discussion. :huh:

Thanks again!!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:48 pm 
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But even for a horse that is naturally a high headed mover, you can lead them to the peaceful feeling of moving with the head lower in a more balanced position. But you have to prove to her that peace exists in movement.


Exactly where I am trying to go.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:08 am 
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Hey Annaliese:

I don't think you sounded defensive at all! :f: But I understand, completely, the need to clarify where you two are, what you've done before, what you understand about her...I think that's very helpful to read, and think that as we get to know each other better, our answers get more finely tuned in terms of where people and their horses are. The first couple of months I was posting, I got thoughtful answers (of course! ;)) but people didn't always know enough about us to understand the complexity of the question. Does that make sense? I could always find something useful/helpful in the answers, but I find that when I ask now, a little under a year in here, the folks who've been following my journey have a truly brilliant way of zoning in on exactly what I need, because they've read so carefully about how we're working together, and know our history better.

(And just for the record, I didn't think that you two were anything but lovely, even-tempered, competent partners!) ;)

For me, one of the really interesting aspects of making this committed shift into a different dynamic of finding consensus with my horses is that it does open up opportunities for them to actually question (or challenge), things that they haven't necessarily challenged in the past -- and while splendid in the big picture, I think it can also be legitimately cause of some head scratching and heartburn..."but we used to be able to do this?!?"..."Are we now totally reductionists?" "Will I soon be at the point where all I can do effectively is throw hay to them???" :rofl:

And I'm with you on the wondering about connection and the bit and the insistence by many in the traditional dressage community about its innate, unchangeable interplay. There's actually a great conversation about that very question here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2073
if you've not seen it. :) (Actually, it's there even if you have seen it...silly way of putting that!) ;)

I was working with a trainer for several years who was really committed to the idea of connection, and was willing to try and help us find it bitless (even while being quite certain we'd never get past a certain point without a bit). She believed firmly that I needed to exert a lot of rein to get Stardust to balance -- that he couldn't find it on his own, and it was my job to hold his head so I could try to pull his entire body into balance. This was honestly felt, and was about trying to do the best for us. Except that it didn't work! We battled with this for several years, and his sense of balance didn't get any better.

Now, after working almost unilaterally on the ground, mostly at the walk, doing the lightest versions of some of the ground exercises here, I'm starting to see a horse who moves out at liberty almost always in balance -- which was something he rarely did before. (Should have been a clue, huh, that he couldn't balance himself without a rider -- why should he be able to balance himself with a rider? This actually was one of the things that sent me in search of AND -- the longer I thought about it, as a dancer who'd done a lot of partnering work, the less it made sense to me -- if I'm partnering with another human dancer, I can certainly knock them off balance if I do stupid things with my weight and energy -- but I can't physically pull them into balance if they've not already got it!)

So -- anyway, I think that this way of looking at bringing a horse into balance is deeply ingrained in a lot of the dressage community. And for some horses, it may well work. But for me and Stardust, it meant a whole lot of really frustrating circles until we both wanted to bite something, with no real change in his abilities!

And I laughed out loud at "expectation land." Oh, boy, it's a land I know well and visit often!

:D

And I don't think you need to be doubtful of your own skills and knowledge at all -- as Karen said, your heart knows best. I actually am just coming out of a phase where I decided that I didn't want to hear what any trainer might have to say about what we were doing because I felt like my guys and I needed to find our own center first, before we started looking at other opinions -- as I'm feeling more grounded with that, I'm beginning to look outwards again, feeling like I'm better equipped to decide if what others are doing/saying makes sense to me, rather than just feeling like I need to accept what they're teaching because they obviously know so much more than me...this has been one of the most important aspects of our development to date, I think.

Best,
Leigh

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:56 am
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Jess - Your mentioning that vid of Belle and I at the trot made me go back and look at it (I do not need much reason cause I love her :l: :l: :l: ). We both progressed a little more before the Great Barn Drama, but it is a pretty good look at the level and kind of work we were doing. It reminds how hard it is to believe in Belle coming to use herself. I have not ever seen her collect naturally that I can think of, not even when we'd gotten into good shape. Often I would ride her and coax her into using herself, not going like a saddleseat saddlebred with that horrible swayed back and U shaped neck. It was watching her neck and when at one point she goes to change from a nice carriage back to saddlebred/saddleseat and I see how big that underside muscle of her neck is. It was her only neck muscle to speak of when I met her. Slowly I got to the point where I could guide her to use herself. Slowly her musculature changed. But I can't imagine it would have without guidance since I never saw her do it on her own.Like a kid with bad posture. There were days where she'd feel all off but I'd check and see and coax her into better use of herself and every bit of off was gone and she was smooth and seemed comfortable for the rest of our ride. It was nice to hear of someone who had a similar situation but had success with lots of ground work. HARD TO BELIEVE. So confusing.

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