The Art of Natural Dressage

I have a simular type horse as in Kassidy's introduction, this is her with only about 20 short times under saddle and me as a rider (I think Kassidy is far more advanced ). Riding with a bitless bridle is sooo great, maybe some inspiration for the owners of the mare she trains

Hello kassidy,

Nice to see you here! Heather's book "Enlightened Equitation" was the first book years ago in my shelf about the classical way. It amazed me a lot at that time.

But, Bianca, if it is alright I would like to ask a question about the picture of yourself and your horse. I understand that this pic was taken when she had only been ridden about 20 short times, but I am wondering what are the reasons that she has gone deep and low in your opinion? Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Eda

If you do not mind, I'd like to take an opportunity to answer

Deep and low is a natural state for the novice horse in order to find his or her balance.
The horse can not yet walk in 'upright collection' as one tends to see as the ideal in the classical Riding Art (and also in AND by the way, but is is the end not the goal).

However, it is only natural and healthy when the horse choses to go deep and low.
It is not when fixed with force, like one sees a lot nowadays in sports dressage world.

Second, Spanish horses, like Bianca's Purebred Spanish Mare (PRE) do tend do walk deep and low even in freedom.
By the way, Evita, is not that deep, watch, she is only an inch or two behind the vertical.

And last, during a correct training, the head and neck never is in a fixed position.
That means that if during the 20 minutes of Bianca and Evita's training you would take 20 pictures, all 20 would be different, showing Evita in 10 different positions.

We afteral, when riding with a bitless bridle, only keep a soft contact, but never force the head in position as that would be contraproductive towards our goal.

Warm regards,

Josepha

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Indeed, thank you Josepha, we train (not at the moment, because on maternity leave ) from the hind to the front. She is more driving and has to get stronger to start carrying more than driving. It looks like she puts weight in my hands but when I would drop the reins the head remains in that position.

Welcome

You could never carry that weight in that ever so soft leather caveson any way...
you would fall over

People know that even with a bit it takes a lot of force... it would show in the horse (upper neck muscles, pelvis rotated the wrong way etc.)
Evita looks very much comfy and relaxed with the right muscles working and a very rond upperline, which is really welldone for such a novice horse!

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Thank you for your answers.



Could you please point out some references? I know and have experienced that the horse chooses to go long and low, not deep. If you look the classical masters their horses' poll is always the highest point (of the neck), even when they stech which is always forward.




Th goal is to ride a horse forward with grate impulsion and self-carriage when talking about the physical side of the trainig ofcourse if I am correct. To achive that we need to drive the horse forward, doesn't we? We want that the impulsion would be carried forward, not down. So I belive we have to encourage the horse more to strech it's spine which is necessary for longitudinal flexion where the true collection can develop more. Correct me if I am wrong, please. At this point lets say that is the goal and then I assume that we should not ride horses deep. Is that correct?

I defenitly understand that this is just a pic and just one moment in the session and I am not saying nor beliveing that the horse worked like that all session. And I am not saying that Bianca is holding the horses head- not at all!, because it is not much possible with a Dr. Cook's, but what I am thinking that why the horse did not stech forward, but choosed to go deep?

I think it has to do a lot with her natural behaviour, a not so charming photo but it gives an insight of her movement:

Saffy does go bitless. But for now she is happy in a pelham. I cant go into too much detail because she isn't mine but when the owner got saffy she couldnt be riden in a bit or bitless without going up. Now she is relaxed most of the time on the pelham. She isn't the easiest ride and has a few issues we are working through which is why she can appear tense in some of the photos.

That head carriage is actually of her choosing. Although she will also do long and low. I do not hold her in but occasionally she will lean slightly on the bit (this is getting much less).

She has a very long back which is getting very much stronger and rounder but it will take a bit more time before I would expect her to be complete round as we are retraining her muscles.

As you can see here ideal I want to only have the weight of the reins in my hand and not the horse:



here she is leaning slightly:

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You're ever so welcome


Do you have experience with the spanish breed?
They always like to go deep. Some horses do, some don't, it depends.
I am not sure what you mean with references?

Here you see Don Jamie and me for instance (lesson from David De Wispelaere)



Why ofcourse, but this is a result of training!
One can not force or create this frame upon a horse.
Like here:

my mistake!
The poll is the highest point, but Jamie is not yet strong enough to carry himself and me that way, so as a result, his back hollows and his pelvis rotates the wrong way.



That would be a goal among certain classical trainers, yes. Others would first train collection before forward movement.
Within the AND, we do not drive a horse forward.
He has to obtain his balance first, when so, he can chose to go forward or we can ask him, if he does not ablige, we remain passive.
When the horse makes a transition to a higher gait, and the balance is lost, we stop this gait, move to a lower one and start over, as long as the horse allows.


Well, yes, but faster movement will not by itself inspire stretching the spine, will it?
We therefore do the strength and stretch excersize on the ground first.
When riding the horse mirrors our body and movement.
When balance is lost,we start over or stop.
We never go to a higher pace when we do not have correct balance in the first place.
Back to the ground it is


We should not ever ride a horse in any forced frame, may it be deep, high or low.
When the horse choses to go deep we do not correct his head or frame in any way.
We do not pay attention to the head.
We just need to feel if the horse is balanced.

If not, we have to find the reason and solution within ourselves.
For instance, or seat and body is not correct.
We correct it untill the horse is balanced again.
It could very well be that at that point the head moves up for instance.

The head position will vary all the time, it is not of great importance in any way.
When the training moves on and the horse will gather more strengt and thus collection, as a result the head will rise and the poll will be the highest point.
But again, that is only a result, not a goal or something to actively work on.


Evita choose that because first of all it is a natural position for he, most andalusians run like that while free.

again my spaniard Jamie:


Second, it is a thing some novice horses do when searching for balance.
It has no role of importance to us.
It is only a problem when people:
a. force this or any position on a horse
b. just ride (everyday) without care for correct selfcarriage of the horse and the damage that can be done without it.

If any more questions about AND just ask

Warm regards,

Josepha

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Thank you for your information, it is so hard to see something from a picture and very interesting to read the story behind it.

Bianca to me I believe it is your position that maybe creating some of her BTV when you are on her. I can see from the photos how she carries herself some of the time when you are not on her.

To me in your first pic to which you are in trot I feel you have collasped through your stomach a little to where this should be always strong and supporting ourselves as this is the core that keeps us stable.

Your head is set a little forward too come up through your crown which brings your chin back slightly, as you are looking down which is a bad habit of mine too although getting better and you need to open your collar bones more and soften your arms and hands further and by opening up your collar bones let the float your elbows should come in a bit and and the rest of your arm should soften.

These are only details as you do have a good position just a few improvements on this pic and they are only slight and you should feel a big difference next time you ride.

BTW I am continuously working on my body position on and off the horse ands I know before I ride I do my pilates stretches all the time.

I can see you are short at the top of your thigh, which I think is common in many horse riders and doing thigh stretches should enable you to be more released through there.

And when you get yourself right when you ride the difference in the horse is amazing with only slight adjustments it is truely amazing what is possible

As I said:



But indeed very good insight if you to notice these tiny things

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Totally agree As a photo is only a snap shot of a moment in time and not the whole story, however it still can tell us lots of things that may or not maybe the case. And only the person knows through trying thing to find what works from suggestions of others.

The more I learn and do Pilates the more I notice but also the more I learn to helps others correct these issues that I come across. And yes they are tiny but the movement to correct them can also be tiny but the difference is huge

I know that when we are on our horses it high-lights all our tight and weak and strong parts in our bodies, that may not get noticed anywhere else as the horse can clearly show us by his movement and stance.

I have always noticed people faults when riding for a long time, I am my own worst and best critic at times But now I am learning how to correct them and to help others too, when I see something that I can relate too.

Indeed!

In the picture series where I ride Jamie you can see very well the result of my faulthy seat in Jamie's posture and where he looks ever so much more balanced when my seat has improved

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You are soo right! This was one of the few times we trotted and I was to much getting used to her trot that I indeed wasn't paying that much attention to what my trainer tells me, the same comments you give

I want to say in my favor I didn't ride at all for about 4 years before I started Evita because my other horse is retired to save my ego