The Art of Natural Dressage

Hmm.... I can't help but wonder what those not in the know would think of someone walking down the street in such a t-shirt.

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Love is Trust, trust is All
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So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.

Isn't it interesting that we have gone, over a few thousand years, and most change in the last century or two, from exploiting the horse, killing him out of hand when he can no longer produce labor for us, to today where we find them so easily changing their instinctive behaviors to behaviors that influence us to fulfill their wants and needs.



We are such slow learners. And horses are most patient human handlers.

Lucy, for instance, gave up her natural aversion to the treachery of humans (apparently) in her past and overcame that aversion when she discovered she could condition Brenda to dispense treats and play fun interesting games with her.

I say this, of course, as a most dedicated servant to the horse myself.

Altea is doing a fine job of training. One little sweet wuffle and I'm putty in her hooves, as I dutifully fetch the yummie alfalfa pellets, post haste.



Donald

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Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.

Hey, great idea!
And do you in practice give an intermediate bridge (for example 'good' without treat) after each of the separate links, together with the cue for the next behavior?

I also like your idea of finishing off with a very easy peasy thing. I already often use suprise-clicks, for example when we've done shoulder-in over a couple of meters without rewarding I'll ask for a walk out of that and then click when Blacky only does the first step to the regular walk. I just love the suprise on his face when he gets a click for such a stupid thing!
But now I think of it, that actually is already a mini-chain, only I didn't see it like that because I thought I was just clicking for the transition from shoulder-in to walk!

So maybe in practice another way to ease the pain of not treating the good behaviors, is think in terms of clicking for transitions?
Then it's not just behavior 1 - 2 - 3, but transitioning from movement one into movement 2 into movement 3 into movement... click! That suddenly also feels more like dressage than as a series of tricks.

Yes, 'treat'ment indeed!

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New horse book: Mandala horses!

Never stop making mistakes! Natural Dressage

Oh I'm quite a blabber when training, but yes my 'goooooooooood' word (vray the amount of ooo's <G>) is my IB, as compared to my exclamation GOOD GIRL!!! which is usually a TB. Like with Lucy's leg/knee lifts, in order to get a few alternating, I use my good (sometimes a few less ooo <G>) to let her know 'yes, that's it, keep going' and that seems to help.

I should clarify about the easy peasy thing. I think it is that I don't ever push it on that last link, for fear of losing the whole chain with a failure. So I may do say walk-trot-walk-one canter stride-c/t, often positioning the newest or piece needing the most direct reinforcement at the end??? So I guess sometimes it it actually the most difficult piece, but because I set my criteria so low on that last link, in that way it's easier?? Not sure if that makes sense!

So YES! I do think of c/t transitions, and leaving the duration to be worked on alone?? I have heard in traditional dressage circles that transitions are one of the most important pieces, and transitions just seem like a natural clicker focus!

For example, when I was working on Lucy changing her bend from say right to left, I clicked early, just for the transition, or even the thought of a transition, probably hundreds of times!! And gradually I delayed the click a bit and got her to move towards me a step while bent the opposite way, and now she can travel laterally towards me for many steps! Just got a clip of that so I'll post it soon! But yes, the transitions are key, eh? And the precision of a clicker just makes that possible!

Yes! I agree! I do think that these 'trick's will eventually turn into dressage, and I already see that happening on a small scale!! Heck, the dolphins at Sea World do 'water dressage' and they were trained with positive reinforcement!!!

What a great discussion!!

Brenda

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Lucy04574
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jack04574

Hey, maybe we should start a thread on BEHAVIOR CHAINS???

That would be fun, to share the what, how, why, when, and where's of behavior chains. And of course videos would be welcome too!!

A really fun behavior chain that I have been threatening to work fora year now on is a Musical Freestyle routine with Lucy!! That could be a great winter project, eh?

Brenda

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Lucy04574

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jack04574

Ok I'm the slowbie newbie!

Fascinating! I think I understood about 20%!!!!!

Some of this feels natural and this topic I will need to return to.

On the basis that I am becoming a treating addict I keep runnin out of treats. Karena has learn't that 'finish' means there's nada left but Noodle looks everso forlorn and keeps trying for me to dispense stuff I haven't got!

Am I to carry a sack of carrots everywhere I go??? What do you guys do? Do you just not ever run out? What happens when you do????? Am I a bad mummy?????? Oh darn - I will have to get loads more goodies for my sessions?????????????????

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To put down everything I think I know about horses and to listen!

Hi Jo!

Oh I run out all the time, so I keep stashes in big plastic tubs in various places where I train! I use mostly dry treats of varying sorts. Carrots and apples are like candy to them...just call them Fat and Founder!! ':lol:' The horses are used to me refilling cuz it happens a few times during each session. But I almost always have a few pellets or pieces of hay cubes in my pockets just so I can spontaneously train out in the pasture or on our pasture paths, etc. I also use grass at treats if I forgot to bring some along.

I am using hay cubes split up into small wafers a lot now, and they take up a lot of room in my pouch, so I need to refill a couple of time, especially for Lucy. It's actually good cuz then they get to have a break, go drink some water, etc.

But when I am done a session, I almost always dump the leftovers and crumbs left in my pouch into a pan when I go to leave them. Same idea as leaving a puppy with a bone when you leave the house!! Mom leaving = good things!

Hope this helps!

Brenda

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Lucy04574

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jack04574

Ha ha!

That sounds very saggitarius! I have it on good authority that sagg's have little stashes of food dotted about their person and their car, etc....

Thanks Brenda! I like the puppy bone idea too! Have to be a little careful cos Kaz likes to kill Noodle at every opportunity such is her over developed jealous streak!

More treats on order.....

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To put down everything I think I know about horses and to listen!

Darn....I've been found out...

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"Ride reverently, as if each step is the axis on which the earth revolves"

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To put down everything I think I know about horses and to listen!

Well, it does help if you're a little mean.
I usually train for about 20 minutes - half an hour with one-two hands full of grains, and one treat is about 5 pieces of grain.
And then I just run back to the house, grab another hand and continue training.

I suddenly start to wonder why I don't just start out with three hands of grain instead so that I just wouldn't have to run back into the house, but I guess this is a feeble and unconscious attempt in order to 'force' myself not to treat too much. Whew, I really outsmart myself!

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New horse book: Mandala horses!

Never stop making mistakes! Natural Dressage

Haha! Me too! And I thought it was because I"m a little piggie.. but I'm a little horse! Have to have a Sagg party very soon guys! Brenda, this is what I do now too. I break up alfalfa cubes into little wafers and have to refill often. And the leaves of certain trees are great. Carrots and apple pieces are for jackpot moments.. But one medium sized carrot can make four hundred treats for me.. I actually counted yesterday! Thanks for the book recommendations. I'm very interested in the chaining thread.. Cheers Sue

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,
But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

You must have the biggest goddam medium sized carrots in the world - or are they homoeopathic slithers??????????????

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To put down everything I think I know about horses and to listen!

Hey Jo, don't hold back, just tell us what you think!!! Just kidding...

Here's a few definitions that I found on the net:

The traditional reinforcement schedule is called a continuous reinforcement schedule. Each time the correct behavior is performed it gets reinforced.

Then there is what we call an intermittent reinforcement schedule. There are fixed and variable categories.

The Fixed Interval Schedule is where reinforcement is only given after a certain amount of time has elapsed. So, if you decided on a 5 second interval then each reinforcement would occur at the fixed time of every 5 seconds.

The Fixed Ratio Schedule is where the reinforcement is given only after a predetermined number of responses. This is often seen in behavior chains where a number of behaviors have to occur for reinforcement to occur.

The Variable Interval Schedule is where the reinforcement is given after varying amounts of time between each reinforcement.

The Variable Ratio Schedule is where the reinforcement is given after a varying number of correct responses.

Fluctuating combinations of primary and secondary reinforcers fall under other terms in the variable ratio schedule; For example, Reinforcers delivered Intermittently in a Randomized Order (RIR) or Variable Ratio with Reinforcement Variety (VRRV).

Brenda

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Lucy04574

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jack04574

Jo, yes, homeopathic slivers, but as you know..it's the tiny dose that makes it effective! I kid you not.. I just went and counted to make sure I wasn't exxagerating. I took half a fairly large carrot. Sliced it lengthwise into fourteen slabs... cut those in half lengthwise.. then chopped across again fourteen times.. 14 x 14 = 196 x2.... One carrot will usually do one horse session for an hour or two.. unless I'm feeling particularly generous and I go and get a couple of handfuls of alfalfa cubes for extras.. or even dip into the illicit corn that I keep for the pigeon.. just a few grains.. big no no.. but they do so appreciate it.

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]