The Art of Natural Dressage

Hello,

I know some of you use a hip target with your horses to get them to bring their hindquarters towards you, whether for sidepass towards you, haunches-in, half pass, etc. How do you teach this? I'd like to start this with Caspian but am rather at a loss, as it's a pretty foreign concept for him (to move TOWARDS me like that). Thanks!

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"Do you give the horse his strength?"
~Job 39:19a

www.cambriahorsemanship.com

Hi Hannah,

Ania and Avra are working on this right now in their diary, with a few starting videos. Not sure exactly what their first step was?? Ania???

Anyway, there are many ways to teach it. Of course I like using a target stick (surprise! surprise!)

The way I taught Lucy was to use a target across her neck so she would turn her nose AWAY from me, and hence her hip eventually came towards me. Then I faded the stick to my arm across her back to a 'tap tap' on her close hip, which is the cue I use now. I initially trained it for the mounting block but have found MANY more uses for it since then!

Another more simple way is to start by placing your hand or target on his hip, just touching it to 'awaken' this particlular body part, c/t, repeat several times. Then progress to holding the target/hand just a hair's width away, and if he breathes he will probably make contact, c/t. And shape it up from there. You might want to start with him along a wall, especially if he's real sensitive to moving away from pressure, may give you more success to strat with?

I shaped knee targeting that way, first touching her knee, then holding it very close so that many times it was just luck that she moved her leg and made contact, c/t anyway, but soon they figure out what maks the clicker click!! I have 4 or 5 short clips on Youtube but here is one of the early ones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7sE8PPTYik

And here is a later one in slo mo where I rub the leg as a cue to tell her I want her to raise and target the funnoodle. The slo mo was part of a timing experiment <G>:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQF5IkKZqMk

Probably easier than the hip but I thought it might give you some ideas????

Brenda

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Lucy04574
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jack04574

Hi Hannah,
I taught this by developing the backing to hand. I started out asking Blade to back to hand, and then I moved slightly to one side of his HQ and he turned his hips to get back in line with me. I then just gradually moved closer and closer to where I was right beside his hip when I asked him. I use the same cue as I use for backing to hand, so I think he thinks that he is actually trying to line his HQ up in front of me so he can back to hand.
He caught on really quickly, since he already knew how to back to hand, and would follow me backing if I moved out of line of his HQ.

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God Bless!
Brittany

www.royalhorsecompany.com

Thanks so much, Brenda and Brittany!

Those are wonderful suggestions and will definitely get me started. I just remembered, too, that he has the idea of hummingtops and so I could use that as well to shape the hip target.

Thanks again for the great help!

_________________
"Do you give the horse his strength?"
~Job 39:19a

www.cambriahorsemanship.com

Hey Brittany! Very creative training! I am always doing the same, seeing variations on this or that cue or body position to see if I can differentiate it into ANOTHER cue for something new!!! Bravo!

And Hannah, let us know how you get along with Caspian's hip target!

Brenda

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Lucy04574

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jack04574

This is funny, because Tam developed backing to hand from my first attempts to teach him to bring his hip toward me.

Well Karen, leave it to you to do it backwards (pun intended)...just kidding!!!!

I think once you get even small shifts/movement, you can shape whatever direction you want in response to different cues easily from there!! They learn the 'concept of moving towards the target' and subsequent behaviors come more quickly.

Brenda

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Lucy04574

http://www.youtube.com/user/Jack04574

Sorry for not replying here... I was a little bit busy well hip targeting was very simple in our case, and this way very easy... I just clicked for any reaction from her to touching her hip with my whip, and in fact it was moving away for the first time, but it was easy to "reverse" it for moving towarts the target, since she was aware that she has her hip and I want it to move. As always, timing is most important especially at the beginning...

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"Never just follow the crowd." Margaret Thatcher

A few days ago I read about this topic and I thought it was a nice thing to learn Amiro. While I was talking with a stable member about the exercise I said: "You see, I want to learn Amiro to turn his hind towards me when I do this" And I tapped his butt. And what happened? Amiro truend his hind towrds me exacly like I said! We were laughing out loud, and I rewarded Amiro of course! Probably it was just coincidentally since he did not do it anymore since then. But it was a very funny and nice coincident.

With the answers provided in this topic I will try to teach it to Amiro too. I think it can be a very useful exercise.

Thank you for all of the replies. Such wonderful information, very helpful!

_________________
"Do you give the horse his strength?"
~Job 39:19a

www.cambriahorsemanship.com

When I first attempted teaching Teo to move his hindquarter toward me he was pretty good on moving away from suggestion (nh training). I was playing with this sitting on the fence and using a stick (longer arm...) to point the further hip. It was pointing - wiggling the stick - tapping procedure. I was persistent and did not change the light tapping into stronger one. And he was just surprised: "Hey, why aren't you on the same side the pressure is?? What should I do about it?" But it didn't took long and he was moving toward me - hips & front end.

I was using it to ask Teo to position himself next to the mounting block (well, usually he was doing it on his own accord - but I could give him a hint if needed). So when later on I started using clicker we had some previous experience. And I decided to use it. So I was making the cue gradually smaller - and now it's lifting my hand above the part I want to move toward me.

If I were to make a decision now, I would probably start with the targeting from the very beginning. But our way worked too.

Thanks, Clara! Yes, I think that method can work very well, too, especially if you're up higher on the horse, like on a fence. (Caspian is so big I don't know that I could do it on the ground! )

_________________
"Do you give the horse his strength?"
~Job 39:19a

www.cambriahorsemanship.com

Since I use SATs methods to teach everything, I have hip targeting, shoulder targeting, both at the same time etc.

It is imperative to teach moving away first.

Just like classical dressage training teaches yeilding to the leg before bending around the leg.

Also, you want the horse to be reliable about moving away when asked.

Starting targeting with hips should be clearly defined and a very small amount of movement at first. This will prevent the horse from swinging hindquarters at you.

I have a clip of me and my youngster dancing.
No targets anymore.
I will see if I can get it up today.

Carrie

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Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.
Lakota proverb