The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:05 pm
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Location: Natal, South Africa
Hi, Carrie.

I'm not too sure of what's going on with Freckles at the moment. There are no problems, I'm just not understanding why he's doing what he's doing.

If I halter him he will follow me anywhere and I don't need the lead.

If he is "free" he will sometimes follow me if I am wearing the "treat-bag" and sometimes not. (When we're "working" I have to stop him from crowding - he tries to stay back but gets over-eager!)

At liberty, if I go a little behind and to one side of him and gesture with my arm and hand while I "cluck", he moves off with much more "gusto" and goes until I drop my arm - this is wierd because before last week he kicked out at any attempt to "drive" him!

On the other side - he now happily leaves the yard by the path that leads to a new pasture, at liberty and nicely composed. If I go to the pasture he is still attentive. When he "sees" something or someone, he still raises his head, but is not doing the "locomotive breath" and then he looks at me and back to the unknown. If I move between him and the unknown he lowers his head to "normal" posture, but doesn't graze again untill the unknown has moved on. But this is all an improvement on "freeze and breathe and ignore my human", so I'm pleased.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Glen Grobler

Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm
Posts: 176
Location: USA Michigan
Hi Glen, well that sounds like a good thing to me. The part about him moving off with your hand gesture and not kicking out.

You know Sid will do that sometimes as well.
Not as much as he did when I first started teaching him about moving away.

IMHO, because we don't use force or manipulation and we do focus on positive reinforcement, they are reluctant to increase distance and are telling us this by the kicking out. Once they realize that reinforcers will also happen with distance too and they also have a clearer understanding of the cue to move off or away , then their fine.

I beleive Sid does it because he tests me at times. He can be rather dominant, not just with me but with the other horses as well. He pushes and pushes his will. I actually believe that if I were using -R and force with him that I would have alot of fight with him.

He is the type that needs to be convinced that what I would like him to do is of benefit to him. :lol:

I played a game with Sid on Saturday. My dressage instructor ( I don't take lessons anymore ) came out to visit with her old horse. I asked her to sort of distract Sid, he's nosey and always checking new people out to see if he can get a free handout :lol:

I called him to me, while she acted like she had something in her pocket. She knew not to give him anything, he tried.....and in less than a minute he came trotting to me ( my 2 finger target, " here" ) I appeared as though I didn't have the treats but that Wendy was the one who had them. When he realized nothing would come from her, he came to me and

SUPRISE, SUPRISE...... a delicious piece of apple was waiting.

At any rate, I try to do different set ups to show him that being with me and/or doing things with me when I don't appear to have treats is when the best chance of getting food treats will occur.

Another thing I do, is I will simply walk around, acting as if I could care less if he follows me or not.

I don't ask him for anything.
As soon as he begins to follow me and is in the position ( proximity) that I would like for following ( not crowding ) I will IB then a TB followed by a treat. I will increase the duration of following me by using the IB and then sometimes it is just a short xx then X followed by a treat.

Now, more often than not he is choosing to be in the non crowding position and following.

I wonder if Freckles thinks that when the halter is on, he is "working" and when it is off he is free to make a choice, so sometimes he will make the choice to follow and sometimes not.

It certainly isn't a bad thing at all.

Carrie

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Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.
Lakota proverb


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:55 pm 
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Location: Natal, South Africa
Carrie

Quote:
As soon as he begins to follow me and is in the position ( proximity) that I would like for following ( not crowding ) I will IB then a TB followed by a treat. I will increase the duration of following me by using the IB and then sometimes it is just a short xx then X followed by a treat.


I've been doing similar things since I gaot the first few answers on this thread, and it is helping. I think I had a mind-set that I wasn't rewarding for "being in transit" and now I've corrected that.

Quote:
I wonder if Freckles thinks that when the halter is on, he is "working" and when it is off he is free to make a choice, so sometimes he will make the choice to follow and sometimes not.

It certainly isn't a bad thing at all.


It's possible that's what he's thinking.

I agree, not a bad thing at all. That's why I said in my last post that it's not a problem, but I just don't understand it yet.

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:20 pm
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Location: Norway
Here I have missed A LOT!!! And just because I don't know what balky is... :roll:

I will catch up tomorrow (I don't have the time at the moment). In the meantime someone might tell me what balky means??? 8) :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Location: Natal, South Africa
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Kirsti, a balky horse is a horse who just stands still and won't move. The horse "balks" when it won't go forward on request.

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:20 pm
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Location: Norway
Oh - thank you!!

I really must wait till tomorrow - even how tempting it is to just read it all now 8) :lol: :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm
Posts: 176
Location: USA Michigan
Hi Glen,
I just meant to say that yep, I agree too....that not following when " naked " :lol:
Is normal and not an issue.

The fact that he does soemtimes, even with distractions and in the previous areas that were problematic shows a huge leap in his trust, and he is feeling secure and confident.

He is doing really good. That's excellent :)


I won't write another story :lol:

( sorry if I had repeated suggestions in the last post) :oops:

Well, off to do more work.....ugh
I have 25 trees to plant..
Carrie

_________________
Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.

Lakota proverb


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:26 pm 
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Location: Natal, South Africa
Carrie,

Quote:
I won't write another story



:shock: :cry: :cry: How can you do this to me? I LIKE your stories, and they are educational, too!!!

Quote:
( sorry if I had repeated suggestions in the last post)


Excuse me? No, really, EXCUSE ME?? It's me that's sorry about being thick-headed enough to NEED the repeat! You offered a "why" that I hadn't been able to think of!! And I didn't "interpret" it properly the first time around!

So I was saying "Phew! Thanks for hammering - I needed it!"

:kiss:

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm
Posts: 176
Location: USA Michigan
You don't need to be hammered ....your doing great!!!

I had chimed in on the thread when you were wondering about the death of Prince .

I didn't want to sound like a broken record :lol:

( I have been told, more than once, enough with the detailed stories......) so I try to monitor myself....keep it in check :blah:

Cheers
Carrie

_________________
Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.

Lakota proverb


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:29 pm 
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Location: Natal, South Africa
Carrie,

There is more than enough Irish in my ancestry to thoroughly appreciate a good blather! Keep it up!

:lol: :twisted:

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm
Posts: 176
Location: USA Michigan
Ha hahahaa so you enjoy the bantering of the
Irish :lol:
Well, I am Irish and Native American....
hmmmmm
One part of me says " babble on " and the other part says
"be Silent " :?


Carrie
( she who tells never ending story...) :lol:

_________________
Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.

Lakota proverb


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 5:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 2888
Location: Natal, South Africa
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Have you ever tried "silently babbling on?" That was my solution when I was little - I just moved the blather off my tongue and into my head!

I am 2nd generation Irish, with Scot and Boer, So I have the babble, and the "pride in austerity", and the "stubborn self-sufficiency".

Few people have labelled me "easy to live with" !!!

:lol: :lol: :twisted:

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 2888
Location: Natal, South Africa
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BTW, Freckle's balky behaviour is mostly corrected now - I've realised that he's actually "done a 180" on me. When I got him he hated being driven and needed to be led, now he prefers me to be behind his shoulder and ask him to go forward with a combination of voice and gesture! Silly horse!

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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