exactly the whole point:
The horse wanting and finding it out for himself to get where he wants to be vs
just doing everything to get a way from the iron on his bars....
With one being black and the other white and then all the grey shades in between.
and then there are those who only work and rider with cordeo...
collection and correct movement has nothinh to do with a bit or reins...
It has everything to do with the horse's mind and body and whether or not a rider is in the way or isn't and is even helping (that is why it is called aids and not commands... people get that confused though).
It's just that people have found out they can que horses with help of reins and a bit into collection sometimes. But the truth is, it has nothing to do with that at all.
And to be quite frank, I haven't seen so much real collection in my life, since the start of the whole bitless and natural dressage thing on the internet.
I think in 20 years I might have seen once or twice a horse reeally collecting... the rest was all just curled up horses walking crooked and on the forehand.
In my experience, all those people speaking about needing a bit for collection... first check them out: are their horses collecting?
99% they are not. If you have felt real collection, you know that it involves leaving room in the front and keeping your body under control.
Tell me, how many have you have seen a horse really collected under his rider in the regular stables where you come?
there you go. First show me a collected horse, then talk to me about the bit.
Either way... the discussion ends