The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:25 pm
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HI Everyone,
I'm new to the forum.
Have a quick question about Zuzana's reference to a book for the value of the lessons.
Which book?
Gerd Heuschmann's book or Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage
Thanks!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:36 am 
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Hi, I'm not sure what you're exactly referring to - maybe you can tell us what it is you're looking for. Which kind of lessons are you looking for?
Ger Heuschmann is a veterinarian and his book describe mostly biomechanical issues as far as I know. Philippe Karl and the other hand is a reknown teacher of Classical Dressage and his version of it called "Légèreté". In his book he describes a few lessons or better he proposes a different approach to some lesson from the so called "Modern Dressage". It is not really a book to learn Classical Dressage from. If you are familiar with ridden dressage lessons like shoulder in and want to try his alternative approach, then it is a very interesting read. :yes:

Hope this could help you some, otherwise please ask again... :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 2:46 pm
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Location: Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan, Canada
horseteachme wrote:
HI Everyone,
I'm new to the forum.
Have a quick question about Zuzana's reference to a book for the value of the lessons.
Which book?
Gerd Heuschmann's book or Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage
Thanks!


Hi,
sorry, I must have missed your question...
I am also not entirely sure I understand "the value of the lessons"?
For understanding collection, I would suggest P. Karl or J.C. Racinet's book - as they are widely available. I would say read all you can and develop a discriminating mind...
If you are referring to actual "how to" instructions, K.F.Hempfling's book "Dancing with Horses" is a classic.


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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Brasil
Zuzana wrote:
In your liberty play, focus on the time your horse slows down (or halts). The times that he does this correctly, he will put his hind end under and lift his forehand/poll.
The way I follow is of Klaus Hempfling - where to stop the horse, you take an active step forward, tilt your own pelvis, bend your knees - in a way you encourage the horse to imitate. (I would love to find out others' opinion on this and other ways...)


I simply can't get my mare to answer that way! On lungeing, she always slows down lazily. Any sugestion on how to prepare it in order to get a more responsive reaction from her?


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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 7:01 am 
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First, welcome to AND! :) I am looking forward to reading more about you and your interaction with horses, but I think it's great that you are asking a question already. If you are not familiar with the AND approach yet, you can check out this introductory post on AND groundwork. This does not provide a step-by-step plan, but it might give you some general ideas already on how the problem of a "lazy" horse could be dealt with. My reply will also be a bit unspecific, because for me there are a few steps to consider before asking how to get engagement in a specific situation - for example the question of how to get engagement in general. And as I know nothing about you and your horse yet, I also don't know how you are interacting with them. So bear with me for starting at the very beginning. ;)

What helps me a lot when deciding what to do or not to do in interacting with my horses is to put myself in their position mentally and ask how I would like a particular situation. For example, how would I like running circles around someone who tells me to do so, while he is standing in the middle, watching how I move and giving commands, and perhaps even threatening to impose negative consequences on me in case I am lazy or my moves don't please him. In case I feel okay about the possibility that my horses also feel that way, I can simply go on. If not, I have to ask myself what would make the situation better for myself if I was the horse.

For me personally, the most important realization in getting more engagement from my horses was that I cannot be lazy and uninspiring myself, and at the same time expect them to be highly motivated. Although this sounds very simple, I find myself confronted with that same issue again and again. In my experience, most horses do not find it very interesting to run circles around someone. They are, however, willing to do this for me if it is embedded into an interaction that is fun in general. That is, if we play the way they like and then I ask for a few circles, they are mostly okay with it and then also put a lot of effort into it.

Now there are several ways to get horses to enjoy the interaction with humans more, to be more attentive to a human's body language and to be more engaged in the training. They have been discussed in hundreds of posts in this forum, and I can direct you to some of them if you want. However, I feel that before that there is a more fundamental decision, or at least for me there was: Do I want to embrace the idea of my horse being the master of his own training? I think this is an important one, because it shapes the more specific questions to be asked afterwards, and the steps to consider in helping a horse to be more engaged in a particular situation.

Looking forward to reading from you. :)


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 7:28 am 
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Welcome Luara! From Brasil - wow! Looking forward to read more from you.

As Romy pointed out already, there are a lot of things to consider to get what you want from your horse. To help you more specific, you really should give us some more background information :yes:.
Since you mentioned lazy stops at lungeing (which I am familiar with ;)), there are two points I like to add from my experience. First, if you have a horse (like I do) that's very energy conserving, it would be easy to stop him, but hard to stop him in a way like Zuzana described. It's actually a very engaged stop which I can only get properly, if my horse is in an already engaged temper. So, as paradoxical as it may sound, but to get such a halt, you will probably have to get your horse to show more energy first.
The second point that I found when lungeing is that it is per se not a good setting to get synchrony with your horse. Horses seek synchrony I think and love to do the companion walk side by side. If you stand in the middle of the circle (often not moving very much) you are basically driving your horse - not moving WITH your horse.
It's much easier (especially in the beginning), to start side-by-side. Walk together slowly, ask for a halt, walk more engaged, halt more engaged. When I started this with Mucki, I basically had to work my way slowly up to a higher tempo and to more synchrony. It's a long process with some horse, while others take it up pretty quick.
One important factor I see is that your horse will want some reason for synchrony other than just a driving whip from behind. Clicker Training works beautifully there. Another interesting approach are the Waterhole Rituals by C. Resnick for example.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Brasil
Thanks, you two!
I guess I was too excited with this forum and a little too anxious, so I started asking things as soon as I registered. I did not even open the "Welcome" forum yet! :blush:
You probably have a lot of answers around here already. Sorry :lol:

And thank's again, for your welcome and answer! :)
I promise I'll try not to do this anymore ^^


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 1:04 pm 
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No worries, you are most welcome to ask questions, and it also doesn't matter if the question has been asked already, because in that case we can simply direct you to the corresponding threads. :) It's just that if we don't know much about your situation, our answers cannot be as specific as you perhaps would have liked them to be.

I hope you will enjoy the forum, and don't hesitate to ask or comment whenever you want to. :f:


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 1072
Location: UK Worcester/Hereford border
See Romy working at liberty as suggested http://www.youtube.com/user/RomyTitum and also these
http://www.youtube.com/user/windhorsesue
also Tam http://www.youtube.com/user/ciscotam
Nirvana http://www.youtube.com/user/lasuria
Nepomuk http://www.youtube.com/user/OneHouyhnhnm

To understand what is happening to the horses body while we ride see these:
http://www.sustainabledressage.net/rollkur/why_not.php.

http://scienceofmotion.com/documents/st ... ation.html

http://www.scienceofmotion.com/equine_b ... earch.html

Dr.Deb Bennett click here then see pdf's ring of muscles and the ranger model. http://www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_ ... epage.html

For understanding I still highly recommend Lucy Rees book The Horses Mind, still valid in content but no longer in print, it is sometimes on ebay and amazon, also her book Riding the True Techniques because of her blending of mental, emotional and physical understanding of her observations. http://lucyrees.ponymadbooklovers.co.uk/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Horses-Mind ... 0668065451 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Riding-True-Tec ... t_ep_dpt_1

Hope that helps to be going on with, then there is training horse and rider, TTouch, grid poles,
+ If you don't have time for pilates or yoga classes perhaps these exercises will help?
http://www.sensemethod.com/human-articles/
and http://www.sensemethod.com/humans/felde ... or-riders/
and http://www.sensemethod.com/humans/instructional-videos/
I did try the Feeling Stiff? Sit Your Way to a Supple Spine! and it helped after spending time by the computer. I had not come across 'sensemethod' previously.

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