The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Mounting, for Tam, is a three cookie event, always!

He gets one for positioning, one immediately after I get on (for standing still) and one for acknowledging that I've picked up the reins (he drops his nose without contact).

I can do it all without treats, but then I feel like I've cheated him somehow :funny:

I can leave Tam some distance away. He will stand and watch me walk to the mounting block. As soon as I get up there and turn to look at him, he then comes to the block and sides up to it. How could I NOT give him a cookie each and every time? :D

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:53 pm 
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ha ha ! Don, you are so right! Just treat them for not mugging, I always say. It is not really rocket science :)

@ Karen, same here, O does the works without treats, but I love to give him treats.... why not, why not?! I can not give him an I-phone, or new cloths... or buy him diner or go with him to the cinema or a Spa... He is happy with some treats he would else eat out of a bucket anyway... good lord :green:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:21 pm 
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Thank you Volker. It is about time that people start seeing the difference between collection, natural balance and on the forehand, don't you agree?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:34 am 
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Love, honors, friendship, respect, are nearly always the reason for the ceremonial giving of food.

Food treats really do serve that purpose in the relationship with a horse, plainly.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:46 pm 
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find it on www.josepha.info

Looking forward to your thoughts on the subject :)

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 Post subject: Article Meat for Canons
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:17 pm 
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on the right bottom on www.josepha.info :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 2:05 pm 
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The official training programme laid out by the FN (the German national riding association) is directly derived from the "Reitvorschrift H.Dv.12" ("Heeresdienstvorschrift"), which is a military rulebook for training cavalry horses. It originated in 1882 - last reworked 1937 by the Wehrmacht. It´s based heavily on Gustav Steinbrecht´s Gymnasium as I understand and - even though always designed as a military rulebook - contains teachings which seem moderate and horse friendly compared to the daily routine seen at sport events nowadays.

One quote from the H.Dv.12:
Quote:
Dauernden Erfolg wird sie [die Ausbildung] nur haben, wenn alle Vorgesetzten und Untergebenen von der Freude am Reiten und der Liebe zum Pferd beseelt sind.
Means: the training will only be successful, if all superiors and subordinates are inspired by delight in riding and love to the horse.
Now where do you see that in professional riding - or so many riding schools for that matter?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:28 pm 
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I have found nothing 'friendly' as such in Gustav's work to be honest. There is a lot of good info in there to understand how exercises can benefit the movement of the horse in a better way. So I really recommend it, mind.The prime directive does remain obedience as does in the German rule book, which is full of biomechanical impossibilities and really contradict the old masters. For instance things such as costal flexion, low hands, using hands with continuous strong contact combined with the use of legs simultaneously.
Nevertheless, that does not mean that higher officers where supposed to be gentlemen and when being so, where gentle to their horse as well. My article is only an explanation of events, not a jduge of every rider in history :funny:

What is written and spoken by trainers and what is actually executed is often quite a different story. The problem currently is probably that sports are not so much about the honour of it any more, but about the money.

Money talks and silences horses and those who actually really care about them...
On the brighter side, more and more people are starting to find ways of being with horses outside the outskirts of sport and that is probably the next era of this story we are moving into :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:34 pm 
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And in addition, love for riding does not automatically mean that the horse will love it too.
Love for a horse as person or individual and love for what horses can do for you is also something that people seem to get mixed up in my humble opinion...

If it would say that the most important thing is that the horse loves his training and proves that by showing up and participating off his own accord... sports would probably look more like this new sport horse agility :funny: but in any case nothing like how it has looked since it started I am pretty sure 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Josepha's articles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Josepha, I merged all your single threads with the links to your articles into one big sticky. In this way (1) they are all in one place and thus easier to find and (2) the Theory section does not get all filled up with mini-topics containing just a link. Hope this solution is okay for you? :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Josepha's articles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Josepha, don´t get me wrong - I didn´t mean to say that Steinbrecht or the H.Dv.12 is good. I´ve not read either of them, except a few quotes. I just found it remarkable that the modern evolution of it (at least in the German speaking countries) is even worse than the rules set around the World Wars. And it is the rules that FN uses to teach every trainer in the country. In Austria they have a monopoly on education of riding tutors. You don´t get an official title, except when you bow to their rules.

That really shows the schism that´s developing between "leisure riders", who seem to value the wellbeing of the horse above all, and the "professional riders", who seem to be concerned more with protecting their status as being "officially professional". I wonder where this will lead to...

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 Post subject: Re: Josepha's articles
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:51 pm 
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@ Romy, thanks again, sweety, was thinking of doing that myself later in actually :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:

@ Volker, oh sorry... I was just offering my impolite view as ussual, but totally in general, not towards you. Your views are ever so clear to me :friends:
But indeed, I do remember that the outset of how a piaffe in the german federation rule book should look has been redrawn in I think 1987 or something... Have to look back where I saw that. But in any case, I remember it looking like piaffe much more before than in the new drawing where it just looks like 'lift paws on spot and try not to tip over' :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Josepha's articles
PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Quote:
'lift paws on spot and try not to tip over'
:funny: :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Josepha's articles
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:09 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:30 am
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What brilliant articles, Josepha!

I sent the food rewards article to a friend who was, until this week, using clicker training, but then went to a clinic, and has now been thoroughly convinced by the trainer (a reasonably well-known one in Australia) that using food is bad, doesn’t work, and is mucking up her training. Apparently he explained and showed her in depth "how it really works". She and her horses were doing great things and everyone seemed extremely happy with that way of training, so it’s a shame. I hope she will read your article and give it some thought.

I like what you wrote about rope halters. I do own some, but I agree with you, they are not a soft and kind alternative. I even used one quite recently. :sad: I actually started to think that maybe I was being a bit silly about not using them, because just about everyone else thinks (including very kind people) that they are soft and kind halters… of course, I only needed to come to AND and do a bit of reading to find that I’m not alone in what I think of them. (Also, I should know better by now than to let what other people do affect my judgement. :roll: ) But I don’t like the metal buckles on the nose of most webbing halters either, many have the metal bit sticking out underneath, which can dig into the horse’s nose. I need to find some halters with smooth, soft nosebands. One day, when I can afford it, I’m going to buy the cavesson you have for sale in your shop – it looks lovely.

Quote:
What is written and spoken by trainers and what is actually executed is often quite a different story.

This is so, so true, in dressage and also other training methods. I think if trainers were actually honest and straightforward in describing exactly how and why their training methods work, there would be a lot less people involved with them. (And probably a lot more people here on the forum!)

Anyway, now I’m rambling. I just meant to say that your articles are wonderful, thank you for writing them, and I hope that the people I point towards them will read them. I can only agree with Karen about your writing:

Quote:
it's clear, packed with what SHOULD be common sense (which some people seem to lack!) and it's absolutely truthful.

:yes: :yes: :yes:


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 Post subject: Re: Josepha's articles
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:31 pm 
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Thank you so much :blush: And I agree according the stable halters also :) I have leather ones which are so great. But I rarely use them, for having the luck of living with my boys in our own home, they just wander free, or I take them a long with a rope around their neck from point a to point b. Inocencio actually is more easy in hand with neck rope than with halter. Halter makes him in this state of: No don't wanna!!! :funny:

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