The Art of Natural Dressage

Working with the Horse's Initiative
It is currently Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:53 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:19 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:43 am
Posts: 209
Location: Herefordshire - UK
Sorry I didn't think about quoting from the closed sections of this forum, I apologise.

I think I am getting the idea now.
For Abbey to want to be with me and to want to participate in things with me, I need to become more interesting and not demanding.
Thinking on it, the most time I ever put my undivided attention onto Abbey (and my other horses) is when we are "working" and working with Abbey has been consisting of me telling her to do things, so of course she is going to say no as I have taken her freedom of choice away from her.

It's hard as I feel Abbey does want to be with me when we do groundwork, but when I am riding her, she is not wanting to take part. I think I must be more dominant when I am on her as opposed to when I am working on the ground with her.

I was speaking to a friend of mine earlier and they said "if Abbey is allowed to say no, then she is getting away with doing what you are telling her to do" - yes she is BUT only in a dominance sense, which is what I want to get away from. I want Abbey to want to do things, not do them because she has to.

So if Abbey does say no to being ridden today, then no I am not going to put her away, give up and do nothing, we will do what Abbey is happy to do - groundwork in most cases, then we can finish on a good note, but it is doing something we are both happy to do together, not me demanding what Abbey has to do.

I think it is slowly starting to sink in now.

It is hard because I have AND thoughts at the front of my head, which yes I do understand and relate to and want to train that way, but still in the back of my head, I have years and years worth of dominating training methods trying to come through.

For Abbey to want to be with me and want to work with me, I have to stop demanding and give her, her freedom of choice back. Compromise comes to mind as I want us to have an equal relationship, not one above the other.

I think, if Abbey would like to, I will just spend sometime this afternoon, in the school with Abbey following the first groundwork exercise of being with her and rewarding her attention when it is on me. I think this may make an interesting diary too.

Do correct me if I am getting confused by anything but it feels like the mist is clearing in my head, which is thanks to you guys

xxx

_________________
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:43 am
Posts: 209
Location: Herefordshire - UK
Just re-reading the first exercise through before I (hopefully) try it tonight and this stands out;

Quote:
You probably have a history of training your horse, demanding exercises. That means that your horse will see you as an omen of work, and maybe even pressure and corrections.


I am ashamed to say this is me at the moment and it is clear why any horse would say no to this misbehaviour.

xxx

_________________
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:37 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
Don't be ashamed Sam :pet:

Abby is already in love with you and she will be head over heals once you start this road...
It never brings what one expects... but it brings sooo much more :)

Yes I do think 'your fogg is lifting' ha ha !
I think you are getting clear what you really want from Abby in particular and horses in general and it is getting to know them, not knowing how to make them do stuff...
Or, that was the case for me a not so long time ago :)


it's about cross roads and choices... that's all :)
And above all: finally putting the 'why?' in every thing we do, not just doing because it has been done...

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:50 am
Posts: 321
Just got home from work... Good luck, Sam!! I'm sure you will have some interesting things to report back after your time this evening with Abbey.

Please do start a diary. I have found it really, really useful - even just to look back and see all of the things we have accomplished. On top of that, people here are so helpful in adding their experiences and ideas and insights. Really wonderful, and I highly recommend it!

_________________
The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain. - Khalil Gibran


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:58 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Oh Sam. You so get it now!!!!!
This was so so hard for me to. It is natural to want to be in control when you are in the saddle because so many bad things can happen, BUT if your horse is trusting you and you are trusting him and you have broken through this, then you have no need to be in control because you are both in agreement.

There will always be times when you want to take control, it is so hard to overcome that in the moment.

I am starting to rethink riding again. I don't want to have to control my horse under saddle. On the ground I don't have to. It is easy. If Morgan wants to leave, he can go but when I am sitting on him he already has no choice. :ieks:

Josepha is a great example of deciding in the moment what her horses want to do that day and if they don't want to be ridden then she does something else instead. I have to admit that I really encourage Morgan to want to have me up there and tend to persuade him when I know he doesn't really want to. Those days our connection under saddle is normally at odds.

I am really enjoying your input here and love that you share your thoughts. (That I am sure most of us have had at some point :friends: ). :applause:

_________________
Annette O'Sullivan

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. - John Lennon


Top
   
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:43 am
Posts: 209
Location: Herefordshire - UK
Thank you everyone for all your input on this thread, the mist is definitely clearing :yes:

I have started a Diary in the relevant section with a report on how today has gone. I just hope I am doing everything right and hope I don't make any mistakes which are going to be detrimental to Abbey (and my other horses)

xxx

_________________
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:11 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:45 pm
Posts: 108
Location: UK
I'm so glad you started this thread Sam! :applause:
Though much less experienced with horses than you, I've reached a similar point - re-thinking the whole relationship. You've articulated many of the things going on inside my head. I'm still surrounded by swirling mists though, and at the moment I'm in a kind of limbo - living in two worlds - especially as I board my horses and am embedded in a culture VERY different from AND :sad:. The practical side of our environment is also providing many obstacles which I still need to work out ways to overcome (e.g. how to play with your horse at liberty when you share a school with other boarders :ieks: :) ).

I'm really looking forward to following your diary - and hopefully meeting you if (no, WHEN :D !) we get an AND clinic set up over here.

Good luck!

_________________
Orange.


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:40 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:43 am
Posts: 209
Location: Herefordshire - UK
orangehoof wrote:
I'm so glad you started this thread Sam! :applause:
Though much less experienced with horses than you, I've reached a similar point - re-thinking the whole relationship. You've articulated many of the things going on inside my head. I'm still surrounded by swirling mists though, and at the moment I'm in a kind of limbo - living in two worlds - especially as I board my horses and am embedded in a culture VERY different from AND :sad:. The practical side of our environment is also providing many obstacles which I still need to work out ways to overcome (e.g. how to play with your horse at liberty when you share a school with other boarders :ieks: :) ).

I'm really looking forward to following your diary - and hopefully meeting you if (no, WHEN :D !) we get an AND clinic set up over here.

Good luck!


Hi Orangehoof,

Thanks for posting.
As much as the "mists" are definitely clearing, I am finding it really hard to focus on the AND way. I am about to add to my diary with what I feel I have achieved this morning but whilst being with my horses I am constantly having to think, remind and correct MYSELF with what I am doing and what I am asking, and this is one key thing - I am asking, not telling. Like you I have everything embedded in my mind which I now don't want to be doing so I feel I somewhat have to "reprogramme" my own mindset on how I am looking at things, feeling things and just my general thinking. It is a huge change for myself which I know is going to take some time, but I WILL get there with the guidance of my horses.

xxx

_________________
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:52 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
This reprogramming will help you with a lot more then just horses, in my experience :)

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:46 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 3270
Location: New York
Hey Sam!

With this:
Quote:
Thanks for posting.
As much as the "mists" are definitely clearing, I am finding it really hard to focus on the AND way. I am about to add to my diary with what I feel I have achieved this morning but whilst being with my horses I am constantly having to think, remind and correct MYSELF with what I am doing and what I am asking, and this is one key thing - I am asking, not telling. Like you I have everything embedded in my mind which I now don't want to be doing so I feel I somewhat have to "reprogramme" my own mindset on how I am looking at things, feeling things and just my general thinking. It is a huge change for myself which I know is going to take some time, but I WILL get there with the guidance of my horses.


You put your finger on the thing that is absolutely the hardest for me in this work!!!

It's a balancing, remembering, letting go and living lightly exercise for me so much of the time! I'm a little over a year in trying to play with my ponies in this way, and while I can definitely say my moment-to-moment instincts tend to be better, I am far from the AND zen master...
;)

But, it's pretty darn cool when it all flows. And the rewards are pretty great.

Short anecdote --

I've had a really stressful month plus with surgery and travel and waaaay too much work and worrying if the surgery is actually going to turn out the way it should etc... This weekend I was in my guys' paddock, and I was trying to put oil on Stardust's hooves so they'll stop cracking. (His feet don't cope with the dryness of Southern California well). This was after I'd tried to put ointment on Circe's capped hock and on her rubbed-to-the-skin mane, and about an hour after I'd tried to express the pus out of an abscess on my dog's foot... So, I'm a little tightly wound...

Stardust decides he doesn't WANT oil on his feet. Except that they're cracking and my vet is coming to do his feet and I know that I'll get flak for letting them get bad...so I find myself crouched down chasing the damn horse around in a slow motion chase scene (think OJ Simpson and the white Ford Bronco...). I completely lose my temper, stand up, shriek at Stardust, and whack him when he tosses me attitude. He stares at me in disbelief.

And I burst into tears. And stood (then sat on the edge of his feed bin) for about 20 minutes SOBBING! OMG, I was the most neurotic, pathetic thing that has come down the pike for a looooooong time.

And my beautiful boy (and my equally beautiful girl) came over to me and gave me hugs. Forgave me my stupid aggressive trespasses and were quietly nice to me as I melted down. The next day, the hugs were even greater.

I'd never experienced this before I started to work this way.

So -- I'm learning both to acknowledge my failures (which can be big, no doubt) but also realize what we have built together over this last year. And I'm learning that my horses don't actually expect me to be any more perfect than I expect them to be.

That's been hugely relieving to me!

Hope this makes some odd sort of sense...

:f:
Leigh

_________________
"Ours is the portal of hope. Come as you are." -- Rumi
www.imaginalinstitute.com


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:01 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:58 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Western Cape, South Africa
:pet:
Oh Leigh, I am sending you a huge hug! It is horrible to feel like that and sometimes it just all becomes too much. Fortuantely when you get to this stage it normally gets better. :D
There is so much difference to blowing off when normally you are calm and cool, to someone who really blows off in anger. Your horses know you well and also know this was emotional and not anger related and certainly not at them.
When you are physically ill, it is hard to be emotionally strong, it's just not possible.
Good thing is you can really see now how your horses feel about you..... :love:

Hope you feel better and stronger soon.
P.S I've missed you around here :D

_________________
Annette O'Sullivan

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. - John Lennon


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:52 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:38 pm
Posts: 701
Location: UK
Hi Sam, I have been catching upon the progress you and Abby are making and you will get there!!

Two years ago my stallion was attacking me because he was fed up with the way previous humans had treated him. On the outside was a savage frightening creature inside was a beautiful, intelligent horse who wanted people to listen to and respect him. Dominate him or have him castrated was the advice I got but not from the people of AND. Thankfully because of AND I met others who felt like I did and received so much support.

I listened to G and gave him back control over his life and once he realised this his desire was to please. like everyone else has said the biggest step is releasing the control.

Tonight he and I stood cheek to cheek as I sorted through my pouch for his special treat, every so often he would gently touch my cheek as if to say, 'have you found it yet'.

Warmest regards
Eileen

_________________
Listen! Or your tongue will make you deaf.

Cherokee Saying


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:43 am
Posts: 209
Location: Herefordshire - UK
Thank you so much for that ET, VERY inspiring indeed :friends:

xxx

_________________
Image


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:50 am 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:32 am
Posts: 3270
Location: New York
Oh, Annette, thank you!

You're right, and this was both helpful and really lovely to hear. Thank you, thank you.

And I miss you all! Can't wait until I get a little better balance going in my life -- I'm traveling this coming week and a half again (this time for work) and I'm really hoping that a little more sanity will settle in at that point.

My poor guys, in addition to being abused by their horrible caretaker, are so bored they can't see straight. They've been getting out but we've had almost no play time recently -- I've not been able to run around with them. :evil:

But, as my wise mother says, "this too, shall pass."

But thank you! :kiss:

Leigh

_________________
"Ours is the portal of hope. Come as you are." -- Rumi
www.imaginalinstitute.com


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:04 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:58 pm
Posts: 1620
Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Your mother is right!!!!! :D
It's hard to see a true perspective when you are frustrated. It is only a short time frame and sometimes hard to accept that you can't get to the things that really matter. The time will come again but until then don't beat yourself up as that is not productive. I hated it when I slipped my disc, but just had to accept that I needed to take time off from just about everything.
Deep breaths........you are no use to anyone without your health.
:f: :kiss:

_________________
Annette O'Sullivan

Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. - John Lennon


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited Color scheme created with Colorize It.