The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:49 am 
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This is a question I've been wanting to ask you all for some time now, as with Blacky and Sjors it really looks like that.
Blacky is the boss in our two-man herd and also isn't that extravert, but I would have expected him as Big Boss to be especially keen on killing tigers etc. ;) However, it turns out to be Sjors who is the biggest fan of the wild chase. He always was much less brave than Blacky, and always looked for support with his two centimeter taller friend or me when something strange or scary was happening.

When we started chasing the tiger, Blacky caught the idea very fast but didn't realy seem to need chasing tigers and didn't put his heart in it either. If he wants to waste energy, it's in focused upwards work, not in chasing a plastic bag. Sjors however really needed to be convinced that the tiger wasn't scary, that he could walk behind it, that trotting behind it wasn't scary etc. But then, when he was totally comfortable around the plastic bag and he got the idea, he suddenly went in tiger-chasing overdrive! When I run with the tiger in front of Blacky, he will follow in a trot and then pick up the bag with his teeth. 8) Sjors will canter after it with great bucks and frontfeet lashing out at it, really becoming the most tiger-scaring pony he can be!

I remember talking to a friend who gives seminars with horses for managers and she told me that she only used the highest ranking mares of the herd for that line of work, as they were completely in control of themselves and didn't suddenly become aggressive or react unexpectedly as they had learned how to communicate with (and threaten ;) ) others with very subtle signals.

So I've started to think that the difference in tiger-chases between Blacky and Sjors isn't just the difference between being more introvert (Blacky) and more extravert (Sjors), but rather the difference between already being the leader and not having to prove yourself in such mock chases (Blacky), and normally being the one who is being led and chased and now getting a chance to be the Big Boss yourself, scaring the hell out of others in safe conditions for a change (Sjors).

This is just my working hypothesis of what I see with the ponies, so I'd love to know your ideas about this and your experiences with your own horses!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Well, alpha's often get to chase naughty herd members so what would be the fun?
The lower the rank the least you get to chase someone :)

I too think that alphas do
A. never want to waist precious energy. They first have to be sure energy is not waisted and
B. Have to watch out for acting to idiotic in front of their subjects and
C. Need to be stimulated with new and difficult things and
D. Are to my opinion particularly interested in things that contribute to their physical strength or rather Collection.

Or that is my thought about it.


With our 4 cats it is the same, Lucky is alpha, and he only playes when the others are not in the room.
The others chase a laser light like crazy every time. Lucky chased it 5 seconds and then looked back to Ralph's handmovement syncronising the little red dot on the wall. 'Aha, Lucky said, 'it's fake!' and he does not chase it but thinks it funny watching the others freak out like idiots :green:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:40 pm 
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For my horses it´s a bit different. Summy is a bundle of self-confidence and became the alpha here when he was two years old. He did not fight for that position, he just has an enourmous presence somehow. Summy does not need to chase the other horses around. He does chase them away when they stand in his way or have something that he wants to have (food, me ;)), but he doesn´t go there to attack them without any obvious reason and also when he does chase them, this is for up to three canter jumps and that´s it. BUT he is the one who is most eager to chase the tiger and there he gets really wild. He also offers much more crazyness and funny jumps in our interaction than Titum.

Titum on the contrary is not only low-ranking in our herd but also not that much of a leadership personality altogether. As soon as he perceives the other horse as weaker, he becomes very fierce about attacking him or just chasing him around for fun. Still he is not interested in the tiger (which he follows, but it´s no comparison to the way Summy goes after it) and also playing wild games is not exactly what he would choose. He prefers to offer exercises and solve puzzles. That does not mean that he never gets wild, not at all, but for him this is more something special than for Summy.

With Pia I am not sure, yet. She is lowest in our little herd, but I think that when she will grow older, she will become a real alpha. She is very playful - not that much of a tiger chaser (although much more than Titum) but when we are playing, she is racing around the pasture like a little rocket.

So for my horses the willingness to play does not seem to be related to a low status in the herd.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Quote:
For my horses it´s a bit different. Summy is a bundle of self-confidence and became the alpha here when he was two years old. He did not fight for that position, he just has an enourmous presence somehow.


That is what an alpha is, mostly they are it, don't have to fight for it :)

But there goes our theory :green:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:46 am 
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Just a word on ranking. Hierarchy is not linea as many people think but rather a relationship between the two horses involved. In other words Bill could be before Ben at the water hole but Ben is first for the best shade. The alpha, or herd leader doesnt have to prove herself (himself) and tends to be quite happy for others to share the patch of grass or hay, and in a natural herd situation the postition often gets passed down from mother to daughter. The ones often perceived as the leaders are often the most insecure feeling they have to protect their food/space etc. probably because they have had a lack at some time in their lives. They are like human bullies who are feared rather than admired. Unfortunately, a lot of these horses get worked on with dominance reduction which of course only makes them more insecure and anxious.

Josepha, you were talking about your cats and the laser light. I was away recently and have a new kitten. The calmest most laid back little boy and really smart. When I came back, the person looking after the cats (I have 6, officially a mad cat woman :yes: )told me how she had been playing with him with a torch, how funny he was, going crazy trying to catch the light. I thought about it and wondered how horribly frustrating to NEVER be able to physically catch your prey. If he now sees a shadow or a light reflected on the wall or ceiling, he goes from being relaxed to what I can only describe as hyper aroused. I hope this will extinguish. Anyway, just a thought.
Colette

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:50 am 
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Sorry, forgot to add. Play depends on many things. They need to feel safe to play and also need to learn how to play ( I mean with other horses, obviously you are doing a fantastic job with play :) ). Do you know much about their hisory?
Colette

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:29 am 
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oh no, they catch the laser light and smack it so hard it completely dissapears into the ground. There that will teach it, ha!
:applause:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:46 pm 
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hey :rambo: cats!!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:56 am 
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Hi I was thinking about this the other day. Cappy is a gelding, hes confident and he likes to be the boss. Blacky is a mare and appears to be second in command.Blacky is also weiry of new things.

Im new to all this but exercises like playing with a ball and chasing the tiger Blacky takes up the challenge and has fun. Cappy on the other hand is harder to motivate and would every now and then wonder over for a treat. Why waste energy when you don't need to lol.

I have read that even though it appears that a gelding is boss, it is actually the dominant mare that is a leader. A stallion job is to protect. What do you guys think?

Cappy can be a bully in the paddock but when out on treks he turns to Blacky for confidence and is quite happy following.

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