The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
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Location: provincie Utrecht
okay thanks...just a thought..and have some more to come now :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:09 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:29 am
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Location: Belgium
Yes this is a great idea.
Because I went to the website of Parelli for more info on their new release. And yep just as I thought! Extremely pricy! Everything is so overpriced. I am sure they need to live from it, but they have so much followers that they can make it cheaper and don't have to change their lifestyle.

It may contain good info, but if you have all their stuff (levels, succes series, liberty program) you see have new info, but they repeat themselves a lot too.
My opinion.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:01 pm
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Location: Quebec, Canada
You're right TLove, alot of the info is repeated. I have the Level 1 and 2 and will treasure these kits because without them I wouldn't be around horses today. Even though I was literally by myself doing Parelli and I was scared out of my head of horses, I was able to buy myself a TB and even though I was told this was not the horse for me, he is still with me and will be forever.
But then I bought the Horse Liberty pack and then the Success Pack, $500 each). That's alot of money! And they keep coming up with new stuff. That's their marketing.
I have heard that their method is changing (more postive reinforcement) and just that is the best news for me. I stopped because I couldn't stand using phase 3-4 on my TB. He was like a zombie, obeying and that's it. So if they use treats instead of phase 3-4, I'll sure start reading up again.
They do have fantastic ideas on things to teach your horse. and since I have no imagination of my own, it really helped.
So even though Parelli is now a "marketing-oriented" business, they do have great ideas and I'm sure it is worth checking out.

P.S. I do love Linda's way with horses. She is gentle with HER horses but sometimes when teaching other people's horses, she would use phase 4 a little too soon to my liking, but if this has changed, great!!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 1:52 pm
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Location: Poland
I think Parelli Patterns pack can be useful not only for PNH followers. It doesn't show how to teach certain things, but gives idea how to develop easy exercises into more complicated. So one can use the 'method' one wants to use. Well, that's not what Parelli says, but if you can use NH, clicker or whatever. That's just "a map", no step by step instruction.

I don't own Parelli Patterns, but have seen it. And it looked for me like good sketch or map. Very expensive one, but not worthless anyway.

As to positive reinforcement...
Teaching new things is still always based on comfort-discomfort (negative reinforcement). There still are 4 phases. But they keep saying that with some horses (introvert and emotional on the same time) you have to be very polite and use only low fazes. And food reward - they use it, if they want to improve the behavior they have. Not to teach. And generally with horses that are calm and thinking.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:44 pm 
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And food reward - they use it, if they want to improve the behavior they have. Not to teach. And generally with horses that are calm and thinking.


Ah, then they still have a ways to go in their education. Because it is well known that food rewards can alleviate the emotional aspect of a response and leave behind the desired response itself in an envelope of composure.

So the education of the Parellis continues! It is good to see their progress.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:47 pm
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Location: Grantville, PA
The Parelli's vow to always keep learning.

As far as using patterns when teaching my horses- if you would have asked me before if and how I used them I would have really thought I used patterns and not drills a lot. After watching the Parelli Patterns I realize I was hardly using patterns at all!! There is such a big difference in going sideways and going sideways to a barrel enough times that the horse knows where he is going sideways to. It gives the horse such a purpose!

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 Post subject: Re: the Parelli patterns
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:05 am 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:51 pm
Posts: 2055
Location: Netherlands
Well, as there won't be much real training going on with this weather with the ponies the next weeks, I decided to go for braintraining instead, and have just bought the Parelli On-Line and Liberty pack. :green:

So now I hope that they don't just cover the same exercises, the on-line one just with a rope as I don't do that with the ponies anymore. 8) But apparently following this topic influenced my brains so that three weeks ago I re-introduced our plastic cones again. And the funny thing is that not only it made me really aware of my bodylanguage (circling around the cone for example), Blacky also immediately started to experiment with how they could serpentine through the cones. I just wanted a simple figure of eight around them, but Blacky immediately turned it into 'shoulder-in around the cone, then in travers through the middle, then in a turn around the frontquarter around the second pole, preferably in piaffe and not in walk, etc. etc. etc. :roll: :green: ). And Sjors is also quite enthusiastic about them, probably because it made my bodylanguage for lungeing much clearer (point down to the cone with my inside hand).

So, I thought it won't hurt to feed myself with more cone,pattern and plateau inspiration. Let the holidays begin! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: the Parelli patterns
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 9:00 pm
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Location: Belgium/Tielt-Winge
I don't even remember what is in them, too busy with other things, but I do know that taking pieces of a lot of different sources really makes me think everything over again :)

I hope you enjoy them, wish I knew what was in them maybe I should reread this topic ;)

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 Post subject: Re: the Parelli patterns
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 2:39 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 11:50 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Georgia, USA
The Parelli's have sold Parelli International and will be shareholders, from what I have been told by my friend who just returned from them. She tells me that the company will go in a new direction under the ownership of Mark Weiler, the past President of Parelli. Pat has made "arrangements" for a "Board of Directors" to act on his behalf to preserve his mission/vision for his company.
My boarder/friend told me that she was very saddened by Pats appearance when she saw him, and that he has been very ill.

Although I quit Parelli years ago, they opened my mind to a new way of knowing my horses that can never change and that spark has only grown to lead me here! So, although it is a large marketing machine now, I still owe my gratitude to the Parelli's for showing me, over a decade ago, that there was a new way to interact with the horse.

I also agree that everything is TOO expensive!!!

It is amazing to me how I slowly grew up the ladder, learning more and more, getting lighter and lighter and seeing more and more just from what I was able to learn from that system, and then Alexander and, well, getting thrown out of Alexander's and finding you all here has pushed me further up that ladder.

You are all really great teachers. Thanks for that... :clap:


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 Post subject: Re: the Parelli patterns
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:51 pm
Posts: 2055
Location: Netherlands
Yippie! :D
I've watched the Parelli Pattern dvd's! Thank god it's Christmas indeed. :D

There are four Pattern Packages, starting with On-line (groundwork with halter and rope), Liberty (groundwork at liberty) and of course I only needed those, as Freestyle and Finesse are about riding and we don't do that so much with the ponies. 8)

What I liked about both dvd's is that you finally see Pat himself at work again - in all the old Parelli packages all you saw was Linda Parelli and Parelli students, and now it only was Pat with several horses. What also missed, was the endless sessions of talking heads 8) and instead everything was horses, horses, horses. And balls, cones, drums, tarps, trailers, bridges and all kinds of groundwork obstacles.
It was great to see the variation those obstacles bring into training and Pat really has some nice ideas for them. I especially like the fact that just because you have three drums, doesn't mean that you should just pole-bend around them. He uses them for every exercise you can imagine, and that really is nice to see as it's bound to give you inspiration. At least it did to me, even when we already were very obstacley lately. :D

I also liked how he handled situations where the horse didn't understand what he asked. For example when a mare doesn't want to go between two big tractor tires. He tries several things to show her what she should do (going sideways towards, backwards and other stuff I can't remember now) and just by puzzling like that, in the end the mare goes through it and not because she otherwise gets beaten or something like that. And as soon as the horse gets the exercise, he will go and do something else. Which I think is great, but it also confuses me because I thought that the whole idea about Patterns is that you repeat the same thing several times after another untill the horse really gets it? They did try to explain what patterns were and how you can have patterns inside patterns inside patterns, but it only made my confusion bigger, because if a pattern is not repeating an exercise several times after another, then isn't a pattern just the same as 'doing an exercise'? Maybe it's more clear to others, but I didn't understand. However, whatever you call it, it's great to see so many possible variations with groundwork stuff, and I did start thinking what materials we can add to our training sessions!

I thought it was very interesting to hear Pat mention the problem that most horses (and the horse he had in the roundpen at that moment) will circle and lunge with the head to the outside instead of bent correctly to the inside. My problem with all his circling and round-pen stuff was that all his horses 100% of the time were counterbent, with the head facing out and the hindquarters actually more towards the middle of the arena than the frontquarters. When he started working in the long lines, exactly the same. I thought it was good that he told people that you should notice that problem, but he doesn't have a cure for it himself either, and in the groundwork doesn't pay attention to it. That really can't be good for the horses body.

What was great about the video, was that you see Pat himself working with horses with all his patience and feel, not the students who all mean very well, but who use a lot of pressure (and get taught to use that pressure) to get the horses to do the stuff. And contrary to what many Parelli-opponents say, I didn't see any robot-horses either. However, what really did upset, me was how worried all the horses (maybe except the black stallion) looked. Both at liberty and on-line the horses had a tight mouth and 'worried ears', in that the ear towards the trainer, or both ears would be faced horizontally to the side. Of course that will be described as paying attention, but in real life I have only seen worried horses do that. The only times the horses relaxed, was when Pat told them to come towards him and then started to stroke them in order to say the work was over. Then suddenly the mouth relaxed, licking & chewing started and the ears went in a normal, vertical position again.
During the exercises themselves the horses don't look tense if you ignore the face, but every new cue is met with a raised head an hollowed back, showing that there is a physical and emotional tension all the time, which is only let go during the breaks.

That said, it is good to see Pat himself at work, if only because it shows that this emotional problem with pressure isn't just something that is only caused by clumsy students, 8) but that it also shows in the best trainers - even when only very subtle. Next to that, the ideas for groundwork with obstacles are good - but I do wonder if it really is worth all the money, as most of the ideas really are on this forum too and the dvd isn't for learning to work with obstacles. It isn't a step-plan you can follow to teach your horse not to be scared of and then work with the ball. All the dvd shows is a horse who's not scared of the ball and who has already learned to push it around, and then then does just that in front of the camera. The 'how to teach all this to my horse in heavens name' questions are only answered in the Level packages (or Success series) - and of course in your own head, if you use some imagination. 8)

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New horse book: Mandala horses!


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 Post subject: Re: the Parelli patterns
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:25 pm
Posts: 1348
Location: Minnesota, USA
Wow, excellent review, Miriam. Thanks!!

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 Post subject: Re: the Parelli patterns
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1983
Location: provincie Utrecht
thanks to x mas?? i have to work :evil:
but it sounds good.....hmmm maybe someting to think about ;)


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 Post subject: Re: the Parelli patterns
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:30 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:08 pm
Posts: 44
Location: California, USA
I got the Parelli Level 1 (no DVD in there, just booklets and I want to say... a cassette?!?! This was 2002 I think), and for me it was good because it gave me ideas and then let me develop my own ideas. I'm thinking now, that because I'm on this quest to play and get creative and get rid of pressure (and yes I know that Parelli works with "pressure/release"), that just looking at his DVDs is helpful... that it can bring about ideas about WHAT to do with your horse, and by seeing how he does it, you could do it his way, OR, you could say, that's really cool what he's doing, but how could I do that a different way, one that suits me and my horse better?

So this is giving me food for thought... about just buying them for idea-generating thoughts! But it's expensive. Wondering if I should just buy the on-line and liberty....

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 Post subject: Re: the Parelli patterns
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
Posts: 3688
Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
I'm a very active fan of the library system. Often if they do no have what you seek they can get it somewhere.

If you have student or instructor access to a university library system often you can find things from around the entire world, depending on your university.

My own regional library (statewide, I believe) has these Parelli books and DVDs available. Free, of course.

Where it's listed as "no copies currently available," it simply means that if you want it, you have to put a "Place Hold," on it and of course wait in line if others have done so. Eventually you will get it though.

I do not know the Parelli organization policy on sales of their newest products to library systems, but obviously at some point they do make them available. It's worth asking your library to see if they can purchase the latest though.


#1 Keep Place Hold
636.1083 PARELLI 2004
Raise your hand if you love horses : Pat Parelli's journey from zero to hero
Parelli, Pat.

No copies currently available.

#2 Keep Place Hold
DVD 636.1083 FOR THE 2004
For the love of horses [videorecording]
Parelli, Karen.

2 copies available at Goldendale Community Library and Ridgefield Community Library

#3 Keep Place Hold
DVD 636.1083 SUCCESS 2003
Successful water crossing [videorecording]
Parelli, Pat.

2 copies available at Vancouver Community Library and Washougal Community Library

#4 Keep Place Hold
DVD 636.1083 NATURAL 2003
Natural solutions for spooky horses [videorecording]
Parelli, Pat.

No copies currently available.

#5 Keep Place Hold
DVD 636.1083 TROUBLE 2003
Trouble free trailer loading [videorecording]
Parelli, Pat.

No copies currently available.

#6 Keep Place Hold
DVD 636.1083 DISCOVE 2003
Discover the catching game with Pat Parelli [videorecording]
Parelli, Pat.

No copies currently available.

#7 Keep Place Hold
DVD 798.23 MY HORS 2003
My horse won't go [videorecording]
Parelli, Pat.

No copies currently available.

#8 Keep Place Hold
DVD 798.25 JUMPING 2003
Jumping with confidence [videorecording]
Parelli, Linda.

1 copy available at Vancouver Community Library in DVD

#9 Keep Place Hold
798.2 PARELLI 2003
Natural horse-man-ship
Parelli, Pat.

4 copies available at Ridgefield Community Library, Vancouver Community Library, and Klickitat County Bookmobile

#10 Keep Place Hold
VIDEO 798.2 7 GAMES 1995
The 7 games of Parelli natural horse-man-ship [videorecording]
Parelli, Pat.

No copies currently available.

#11 Keep Place Hold
798.23 PARELLI 1993
Natural horse-man-ship
Parelli, Pat.

No copies currently available.

#12 Keep Place Hold
VIDEO 798.23 PARELLI 1991
Pat Parelli's natural horse-man-ship video course [videorecording]
Parelli, Pat.

No copies currently available. (Estimated wait is 9 days)

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