The Art of Natural Dressage

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 Post subject: Nuno Oliveira video's
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:51 pm
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Location: Netherlands
A small collection of Nuno Oliveira trivia that I'll lose otherwise:

Video footage of Nuno:

http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid= ... o+oliveira

http://dany.lahaye.free.fr/Vid%E9os/Levante_0002.wmv

http://dany.lahaye.free.fr/Vid%E9os/Levante_0002.wmv


I myself can't view the last two, but I'm interested in what you think of both Nuno's seat and aids, and the posture and manouvres of the horse. I'm just reading Josepha's wonderful book of Sylvia Loch on the Classical Rider, and her description of Nuno's extremely good seat and quiet upper body, and am somewhat disappointed when I see his seat for real in the first video. Maybe the last two are better?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:30 pm 
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I don't know if I see it wrong, but I can't enjoy it, those spurs, 2 bits. Besides, the writing on the last movie "Levante à 4 ans" and then seeing a horse do the piaffe, that doesn't fit me.
Besides, I mis proud, I don't see the horses as I see them at Alexander Nevzorov's horses.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 10:42 pm 
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Location: Netherlands
Sadly I still can't see the last two video's, but I agree with you that I don't like the look of the first movie either...

I just read a very nice book (thanks Josepha!) on the classical seat, and Nuno Oliveira was mentioned as one of the best, most silent seated riders in the world. I couldn't find that back in here. He does have a very good independant hand, but I don't like the way he uses it, and neither do I think his body is very silent through the rest of the manouvres either. Of course canter-changes are hard on a small volte like this, but in the horse I see a counter-bend, irregular hindleg movements in the Spanish walk and a lot of stress.

I don't want to sound very vindictive or very fault-finding or anything, but I was hoping to see a better picture after I read the book on his seat. Maybe the first movie was a little extreme because it was in a circus manege and perhaps the others are better, but I didn't like it.

So now I'm going to try to find a way to see the others too... Stupid computer... :evil:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 10:04 am 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
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Location: The Hague, Netherlands
I have the same problem but I can see no video after my computer is reinstalled.. :evil:


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 1:20 pm
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Location: Poland
I' m quite disappointed too... strange thing, he looks much better on photos, where he's almost perfect. When he's riding - maybe it's because he "speaks" with his bodylanguage quite "laudly"... you can see each cue very clearly, and still he remains balanced.
Maybe we should look more at others to compare him too... I like one thing, that he doesn't try to fit the "shape", like most of dressage riders; to make his cues "invisible". Maybe this way he's more clear for the horse.
I've read somewhere that he rode a lot each day, many horses and many hours. This should cause some serious problems with spine... many riders have this problem, just like horses ;)


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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Location: Quebec, Canada
Thank you for posting the reference to the video.

It just changed my opinion on Oliveira. He uses the spurs so loudly it is unbelievable.

The only thing good I could say he has a glued seat. He is extremely straight slightly leaning back to help collection.

When I purchased my andalusian mare 8 years ago, I went to an instructor who studied during a summer with Nuno. She was also breeding andalusian. I watched her train and give a private riding class.

When she took her stallion to the outdoor manege he was already reined quite severely. He was very nervous because he could not move his head to see anything coming behind him, he had to cross a road for driving horses, quite scary if you hear horses running in your direction and you don't see. I asked her why she was doing this and also why she had a paddock that was extremely narrow. Her answer: she did not want her horse to develop wrong muscles.

I am not saying she took that training method from Nuno but looking at him now using the spurs so much, maybe!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:22 pm 

Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:24 pm
Posts: 22
Just a little note that you can see Nuno riding in a video on the web-site of Sue Oliveira which is here: http://users.skynet.be/sue.oliveira/pag ... ospag.html

Click to play the first video: An extract from Cheval magazine.

It's in French so I don't understand what they are saying, but when watching it in total silence I can "hear" how lowdly indeed those riders and Nuno are "speaking" with their horses. Also, pay attation to the girl with gray horse who pats her horse so hardly and loudly.She does not ride very bad, but you don't really see the true love there, no empathy...

Correct me if I am wrong, but at the end of the fisrt video Nuno is riding again and I think I saw him doing canter backwards...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 8:18 pm 
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Location: Quebec, Canada
Thank you for this video.

You are right, Nuno is cantering backwards. At least what I can see is a 3 beat backwards and on the second beat there seems to be a diagonal on the ground that causes the mane flying as you would observe in the second beat of a forward canter. I saw a backward canter only once im my life and the trainer was on the ground.

Pretty impressive

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:42 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
Many years ago I spent some time at Quinta do Brejo and spent hours watching Mr Oliveira riding, he was much older than on the video you have on this thread,I was impressed with his natural but effective seat, partnership of the horse with the lightest contact and also his great love for his horse.
He was indeed a great Horse Ecuyer and I will always be very glad that I managed to get to meet such a great knowledgeable man.
His school horses were wonderful to ride and so highly trained they were professors in their own right.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:25 pm 

Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 12:24 pm
Posts: 22
Hello sueblue,

Intresting and lovely to hear that you have been able to meet Mr. Oliveira himself and watch his trainings at live. Would you please maybe expand what were his main methods how he worked, meaning how much he used groung work etc? I am also wondering as AND is bit and spur free training what were the view of Mr. Oliveira to work bitless?

I am looking forward to any kind of comments about your experience of working with him and riding his horses.

Eda


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
When I was at Mr Oliveira's his working students did a great deal of inhand work, always before the young horse's were ridden, time was spent working them on both reins mainly in lateral work.
Mr Oliveira only worked the more advanced horses in hand whilst I was there, mainly Piaffe and Passage, and Levade.
He taught the students, with the working students leading the ride, a girl named Jane Turley was there at the time, also a friend of mine Lucy Jackson.
When he was riding he worked lots in walk, supplying and relaxing the horses before he went on to more advanced movements.
To be honest whilst I was there, working bitless or spurless was never a topic I heard discussed.
And to be honest although he worked the horses in the bridle with a bit, the horses were not forced onto the bit they were so balanced,he could collect the horse perfectly any way with his seat and back, his reins were very long and loose, and the horses just happily carried themselves.
As all the horses in the school were stallions,I do not know whether as far as safety aspects go, he would have considered it viable to work the horses without a bit on their bridles.
This was approx 20 years ago there are many different ideas since then, were there many people working in those days without bits??
I personally cannot remember any.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:12 pm 
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I think indeed it was simply normal to ride with a bit... even today it is considered normal.

anyway, Master Oliveira knew how to ride for one as I am sure.
And second, he prooved that everything can be done without a bit.

Must have been wonderful to have witnessed this!
I am jealous! :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
Yes I was absolutely devastated when he died, it was so tragic, and it was such a wonderful experience to actually see him working his horses, but I consider myself very very lucky.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:35 pm 
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you are! :)

Did you make pictures then?

his book 'reflections on equestrian art' is one of my favorite books and actually was a step towards AND for me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 21
Location: somerset
I have a very very old DvD filmed when I was there, and transferred from cine to DVD, footage of Mr oliveira riding .
But very few photos.


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