It is currently Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:01 pm


Bareback pad

We do not use much tack, but the things we do use in training we discuss over here.
  • Author
  • Message
User avatar

Donald Redux

  • Posts: 3692
  • Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
  • Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 5:27 am

danceswithmanypets wrote:The idea of taking an impression of the back is a gjavascript:emoticon(':lol:')
Laughingreat idea except that the back can change with or lack of exercise.


You can probably answer this one yourself, but I just can't resist.

The horses back, and the riders butt are removable from each other. New casts can be made of either (I know my butts a bit wider now than it was at 30)

The mating surface, of course is standardized, and zips together some way, like a sealer strip on a sandwich bag.

danceswithmanypets wrote: I had my saddle re flocked every 6 months when I was schooling Merlin. The saddle fitter would come out to the barn. As the years went by, flocking would be taken away in some areas , more added in areas that previously didn't have alot of flocking.

Merlins shape changed as he developed a top line and then after his tendon injury, stall rest for 3 months, and another 3 months of light , very light turn out, I had to have the saddle re fitted again....to fit him after losing muscle and his topline.

I imagine they could get a better fit with an impression, done every 6 months or so....
They used a flexible curve when they would re flock Merlin's saddle.

Leah, I would like to know more about the bareback pad your looking into...I would like something for Merlin for very light riding.
Thanks
Carrie


And I'd like to see someone think more about this casting idea.

Butt to Back. Now there's a catchy name, eh?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I suppose you can see I'm an endless source of amusement and entertainment to myself. I've been known to simply bust out laughing in a silent crowed, with no apologies.

I think even Dakota wonders about my sanity at times. I laugh a lot when I ride. The whole thing is so incongruent to me. What EVER possessed us to climb on a wild animal's back, and then teach him Dressage?

Think about THAT the next time you get your saddle flocked. :wink:

Donald Redux
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.
User avatar

Lanthano

  • Posts: 86
  • Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:41 pm

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 9:43 am

Mustang wrote:The construction is such that it provides a channel for the horses spine.
The man I mentioned earlier(David G.) is a master saddle maker who has worked closely with Deb Bennet and others in understanding horse biomechanics. I hope he will be here soon to share in the forum. He agreed it did appear that the construction of this pad was better then most. Also, As you mentioned this is still for short rides only.

Sincerely,
Leah


Hi Leah,

It does look great. The only thing is that I live in Belgium. I'm going to try to find a distributer in Europe.

x

danceswithmanypets

  • Posts: 176
  • Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm
  • Location: USA Michigan

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 12:48 pm

Hi Donald, I do think your on to something for sure.....I don't know if I would want an impression of my arse :lol: anywhere at anytime.... :lol:

I wonder how much of my changing /growing butt had to do with the breakdown of the wool flocking in the saddle :oops:

I laugh out loud all the time, I am a very low key, jokster type of person.....I find humor in everything.....heck, when you teach animals to dance with you you had better have a sense of humor right?

I wonder about that, why did we decide to get on the horse and teach it to do dressage ?

and then I wonder what Possessed me to take a full Percheron and teach him dressage.....oh I can't even tell you how many saddles I had shipped to try until I found one that fit him. I don't think his saddle fits him anymore. For the past couple years I have only ridden him bareback, not for long stretches of time, just to do little rides around the property. I have enjoyed teaching him "dancing" with me.....I always had a CD player in the barn, with various CD's to choose from, and many pets to dance with.... :lol:

Their the only ones that don't seem too appauld at my dancing ability, except for Griffin, my fancy rat, he seems a bit nervous when doing weaves.. :lol:

When I worked as a Vet. Tech., we used to tease each other with the X ray calipers, sneaking up to get a measurement of the behind.... :lol:


Carrie
Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.
Lakota proverb
User avatar

windhorsesue

  • Posts: 1852
  • Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
  • Location: Taiwan, via NZ

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 2:30 pm

I am of the opinion that a GOOD bareback pad is better than nothing. But not many of them are much good. Skitos are probably the exception, although I haven't tried one. Most of my family just throw a good quality therapeutic saddle pad on when they want to ride "bareback", with an elastic surcingle to hold it on. They are light and balanced riders, and the sweat patterns afterwards indicate that there are no pressure points created. We use Haf endurance saddle pads.
By contrast.. my husband has a Naked Horse saddle, same design as the Barefoot, and it does leave obvious pressure points in the place that on other horses is called a "saddle pocket".. on Footprint we'd have to call it the "saddle bulge" :lol:


And I have something heavenly! It's maybe what Miriam is talking about. Two layers of merino sheepskin, one with the woolside to the horse, one with the woolside to my butt, with a dressage-saddle shaped quilted cotton inner sandwiched between. It has a girth, and stirrup attachment points, well back for correct position.
The sheepskin is not sewed down at the bottom, so I have inserted a cheap shaped wither relief pad of high density foam inside, and that converts it for use on Rosie the Razor blade, and helps to spread the load even better. I put one of the Haf pads under that, and even on Rosie get a perfect sweat pattern and no fuss.
It makes me feel like I'm riding like a pro! One day I've promised us a Phoenix saddle... but in the meantime, this is all we want.
It's called a Christs Lamsfelle Horse Dream. Made in Germany, and distributed in the US from the gotreeless website.

My main concern with saddles, treeless or otherwise, is the girth. This is something that I've never seen discussed, and I just don't know why. Well.. except that it's probably not convenient. ALL our horses tell us that they don't really appreciate the girth, no matter how nicely we do them up. And I can't imagine that they would. How would we feel performing rigorous exercise with a tight belt cinched around our lungs? I know I can't even handle the chest strap of my pack being done up when I'm climbing.

Thats why we usually just use the therapeutic pad with surcingle. Saves the need for a girth.
We all (except me. :( ) have treeless saddles.. we do use them on longer rides. But I really like the kids to ride without stirrups so they don't need to have the girths cinched up tight.


I know i know.. I'm a wierdo.
Image
I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,
But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

Mustang

  • Posts: 135
  • Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:35 am
  • Location: U.S..A. Michigan

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 2:39 pm

Hi Lanthano,

I am sure you already thought of this, but I would try emailing Skito from their website and asking if they have anyone distributing in Europe. If not maybe Josepha would be interested? I also wonder how much shipping would be from the states, they are really light?
Hey Carrie. I posted at the start of this thread a link to the bareback pads I am talking about, I don't know if you saw that yet. In regards to what Donald has been suggesting, I really wish David would start posting, because they are really doing some cutting edge things right now. He would have to explain, but simply they are working at developing a saddle that will be able to move with the horse in motion, much better then anything out there now. I will leave it to him to explain more.

Leah

Marko

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:52 pm
  • Location: Finland

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 2:40 pm

My opinion: Do not use bareback pad. Stirrups pull weight/pressure on spine too much. Maybe if you have real fat/good backmuscles on horses so spine doesnt get pressure it would be ok.

Better to use cheap belt with grips (I do not know which you call these) and put saddlepad and some little carpet/romans/cloths inside it so you have soft spot to sit on. Those rugs littlebit distribute weight too and not all weight is on spine. Belt give you control and something to hold on if you are afraid. If you dont need/want/have belt use elastic belt which is used to keep rugs on horses back. That belt is used just to keep those pads at place.
Many children like this kind of 'saddle' and it's not that bad to horse either if you don't weight alot and don't ride afwul long times.

Hope you understand what I mean even my english is not so good. I do not know proper terms on those things.
User avatar

Kirsti

  • Posts: 1828
  • Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:20 pm
  • Location: Norway

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 3:10 pm

Hey, Marko!! Nice to see you here!! I didn't know you was here.... :lol:

Mustang

  • Posts: 135
  • Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:35 am
  • Location: U.S..A. Michigan

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 3:16 pm

Marko,

These bareback pads have no stirrups, so no need to worry about that. They are constructed differently then most so they do offer some protection to the horse. I started this thread about these specific pads because they seemed better then the average bareback pad. I have since had confirmation that they are.
Sue, that is interesting about the girths. Of course a saddle that fits the way it should , should not have to be cinched up so tight, but that is not often understood and so you are right I think, it is probebly not talked about because most saddle makers wouldn't know what to tell people.

Leah
Forgot to mention your point about "being light balanced riders' it is my understanding that that certainly can make a difference. Was just discussing that with David, a very good rider can compensate somewhat for a saddle that is maybe not the best fit.

Marko

  • Posts: 19
  • Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:52 pm
  • Location: Finland

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 3:34 pm

Mustang wrote:These bareback pads have no stirrups, so no need to worry about that. They are constructed differently then most so they do offer some protection to the horse. I started this thread about these specific pads because they seemed better then the average bareback pad. I have since had confirmation that they are.


Good to hear. I didn't read the whole topic and just answered too fast. My mistake :lol:
I think that anykind of clothing between rider and horse is better than none at all. It softens bumbs a little and gives little weight distribution too. If somebody did ride with me i would like to have mat or pad atleast on my back. I never would like to have normal treesaddle(yes I have tested it on myself).
User avatar

Donald Redux

  • Posts: 3692
  • Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
  • Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 4:25 pm

danceswithmanypets wrote:Hi Donald, I do think your on to something for sure.....I don't know if I would want an impression of my arse :lol: anywhere at anytime.... :lol:

I wonder how much of my changing /growing butt had to do with the breakdown of the wool flocking in the saddle :oops:

I laugh out loud all the time, I am a very low key, jokster type of person.....I find humor in everything.....heck, when you teach animals to dance with you you had better have a sense of humor right?

I wonder about that, why did we decide to get on the horse and teach it to do dressage ?

and then I wonder what Possessed me to take a full Percheron and teach him dressage.....oh I can't even tell you how many saddles I had shipped to try until I found one that fit him. I don't think his saddle fits him anymore. For the past couple years I have only ridden him bareback, not for long stretches of time, just to do little rides around the property. I have enjoyed teaching him "dancing" with me.....I always had a CD player in the barn, with various CD's to choose from, and many pets to dance with.... :lol:

Their the only ones that don't seem too appauld at my dancing ability, except for Griffin, my fancy rat, he seems a bit nervous when doing weaves.. :lol:

When I worked as a Vet. Tech., we used to tease each other with the X ray calipers, sneaking up to get a measurement of the behind.... :lol:

Carrie


We do seem to have a great deal of fun.

I read other horse forums on the Web, and while there are some nice moments, it's nothing like what we have here.

We seem to be seeking and finding joy at an embarrassing rate at AND. I'm shocked. Really I am. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Donald Redux
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.
User avatar

Donald Redux

  • Posts: 3692
  • Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
  • Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 4:45 pm

Marko wrote:
Mustang wrote:These bareback pads have no stirrups, so no need to worry about that. They are constructed differently then most so they do offer some protection to the horse. I started this thread about these specific pads because they seemed better then the average bareback pad. I have since had confirmation that they are.


Good to hear. I didn't read the whole topic and just answered too fast. My mistake :lol:
I think that anykind of clothing between rider and horse is better than none at all. It softens bumbs a little and gives little weight distribution too. If somebody did ride with me i would like to have mat or pad atleast on my back. I never would like to have normal treesaddle(yes I have tested it on myself).


You give good pause for thought.

I wonder if there are others here besides myself that were backpackers...that is that hiked, walked, rambled, whatever, with a rucksack or back pack.

I know there was a world of difference between styles and brands as to how comfortable and how long I could carry them without pain.

It took me years to find just two that fit me properly. One was absolutely the top of the line in hightech suspension system.

The other, which I carried more weight on usually, was an old army surplus (actually it was marked "U.S. Marine Corps") military board. And board is what it was.

Thin plywood, warped at each edge, and stout piece of canvas with metal grommets laced into it. In time the canvas form fitted itself to my back. And when it was in use it would get MORE comfortable as I hiked with it. I think my body heat softened it to the shape of my back even more under use.

I think a saddle should be something like and upside down little 'bed' on the horse's back, or to the horse's back.

It should be a suspension system of some sort. It is, of course, but not on the scale that a well made mattress is.

Some of the most comfortable camp beds I slept on as a kid (my folks camped and fished a great deal in the out of doors in the California Sierra Madres) were just like the old Marine Corps backpack. A piece of grommet edged canvas laced into a suspension frame.

I hope we all keep thinking and contributing to the saddler's art and science.

I hope some are reading this right now.

And they are probably miles ahead of us, but it's fun to explore the issue.

Frankly I love bareback riding. Not like when I was much younger, of course :wink: :lol: but I do think it more difficult for the horse because of our relatively bony bums.

What people often don't get is that no matter how much padding you have on your rear, that is not what is on the horses back. It's those blasted pelvic bones that stick right straight down. Almost no padding at all over them.

Try sitting on your hands, turned palm up, sometime and you'll see what I mean. Ouch! (translated from Equus to English, of course).

Until I tried that embarrassing little experiment I did not truly get what it would feel like to the horse. No wonder my horses used to buck me off when I was a kid. Oddly, though, NEVER, not once, with a saddle on.

Distribution of the bearing surface contact helps a great deal.

I'm thinking more and more about this back of horse (dorsal) molding underside of saddle padding.

And what materials might not only make the first one, but could with some change, continue to mold to the horse's a back over time on it owns.

Some materials, for instance, will change characteristics when an electrical current is passed through it. The recover it's firmer material properties in whatever new shape it has been pushed into.

At least I think I recall reading something on it.

I also consider something I'm sure I've read has been done, a padding protected inner gel cell weight bearing surface.

The problem with gel is that under pressure it takes on a very hard state that will wobbly still is so firm as to hurt. I've tried gel cells for my feet. They do NOT work for me. It's like walking on a form fitting rock. Ouch!

Nice chatting with you.

Donald Redux
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.

danceswithmanypets

  • Posts: 176
  • Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm
  • Location: USA Michigan

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 4:49 pm

Leah, just checked it out, it looks pretty good, I had been looking into the Cashel, but didn't like the stirrups...I am almost tempted to buy the Skido and try it...hmmmmmm

Donald, I went to the site and what do you think was on the page, :lol:

A bumper sticker that reads.....
" Ride a Draft, it will make your butt look smaller " :lol:

So, there you have it, my secret is out, the reason for having drafts.....
Carrie
Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.
Lakota proverb
User avatar

Donald Redux

  • Posts: 3692
  • Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
  • Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.

Light harness driving surcingles ...

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 5:00 pm

Mustang wrote:Hi Lanthano,

I am sure you already thought of this, but I would try emailing Skito from their website and asking if they have anyone distributing in Europe. If not maybe Josepha would be interested? I also wonder how much shipping would be from the states, they are really light?
Hey Carrie. I posted at the start of this thread a link to the bareback pads I am talking about, I don't know if you saw that yet. In regards to what Donald has been suggesting, I really wish David would start posting, because they are really doing some cutting edge things right now. He would have to explain, but simply they are working at developing a saddle that will be able to move with the horse in motion, much better then anything out there now. I will leave it to him to explain more.

Leah


I'm looking forward to any contribution from David on saddle design. It would be great to have someone here that has really gone deeply into this challenge.

For those of us making do, that want to still ride near or close to bareback (and I'm not one, at this time, thank you very much) I used to long rein my hunter/jumper prospects both to train and to evaluate their movement over jumps.

A quick aside, if anyone wants to try this, be advised, you must use a pole running from ground to top of pole on the side nearest you for the reins to slide up as the horse approaches and takes off.

As part of the gear I used a light harness surcingle. They have, in the better made ones, a 'saddle' built into them in the form of two small pads, one each side of the spine, of course.

Just nifty to but a folded Western blanket under with the front edge rolled for an emergency handhold.

Though I still think our seat bones are too sharp for the horse, even with the thicker blanket.

Donald Redux
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.
User avatar

windhorsesue

  • Posts: 1852
  • Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
  • Location: Taiwan, via NZ

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 5:05 pm

I had a horrific experience with a cashel. I would not reccomend them. I have two sitting gathering dust in my tackroom, and they will never be placed on a horse again...well not a horse that is intended to be ridden.
They also have the girth strap right across the top of the spine.
Image
I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,
But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

danceswithmanypets

  • Posts: 176
  • Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:54 pm
  • Location: USA Michigan

PostFri Mar 21, 2008 5:35 pm

Thanks Sue, btw, what happened with the cashel?

there is so much natural padding on my seat bones and I ride very little and on a 2000 pound Percheron with a well padded back, he seems to prefer bareback than a saddle, I would like to find a nice bareback pad for more comfort and it would be wonderful to find one that distributes the riders weight.

I need an extra tall mounting ladder though

without stirrups and a mounting block I can't get on.....seriously I can't.... :lol:
unless I climb up onto a fence....
Force no matter how well disguised begets resistance.
Lakota proverb
PreviousNext

Return to What Tack?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest