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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:34 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:00 am
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Location: Scotland
sorry you have probably had this more than once before :blush:

I am trying to get my horse over to a ''kinder'' bitless option . I sometimes ride him in a halter in the school but yesterday a bird flew out of the bushes right by his feet and he took of and I want able to stop him ( plus the halter slipped right round and nearly got him in the eye :sad: so I have gone back to riding him in a English hackamore but I really don't like the action of , he doesn't seem to mind it but I was wanting something kinder but still had some emergency brakes for when I need them .

I found a few and wanted to see what you guys think and if you had any suggestions ??
https://transcendequine.com/index.php?o ... Itemid=115

http://www.williammicklem.com/multibrid ... ridle.html

http://www.bitlessbridle.com/

http://www.easytreksaddles.co.uk/page_2193695.html
thanks
Ali :D


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 Post subject: Re: best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:50 am 
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Location: Dresden, Germany
Hi Ali, here are a few threads that might help :smile:

Which bridles do you use
Which type bitless bridle for young horse
The (Vienna) Cavesson
Dr. Cook style bridles
The Bitless Bridle
Bitless bridle vs cavesson
Bitless Bridles- Cook vs. Nurtural
La Jaquima con Fiador y Mecate
The LG bridle

If I wanted to use any headstall, my first choice would be a simple leather sidepull and my second choice would be a soft cavesson (without iron in the noseband).


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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:03 am 
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Location: Vienna, Austria
I use the leather caveson right now. I don't have that much riding experience with it, but so far I like it very much. It's the nearest thing to riding in a halter, just that it has a cheek strap which prevents it from being dragged over the eyes. It's my universal tool for classical groundwork, lungeing and riding. I like it simple ;).

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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 1:13 pm
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Recently I bought a soft-padded leather sidepull for Pan, but unfortunately it was too small for his head (although biggest size 'warmblood'). Pity... Until now we used a normal halter for riding, but I think for giving clear rein cues it isn't the optimal thing. Now I have ordered the LG-Bridle (without curb chain, but with a chin strap). I heard only good about it. I'm curious. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:10 am 
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Location: Dresden, Germany
TakeItEasy wrote:
Now I have ordered the LG-Bridle


Well, as long as I don't have to ride him in that or give instructions to you while you use it... ;)
If you want to read more about why I am not going to do it, we have discussed it before: The LG bridle

But if you want me to ride, I can still use the halter and you use that bridle when you are riding alone. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:33 am 
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I will try it, Romy. And then I will see how it works for Pan (and me or you, or and you or not or whatever...). ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:02 pm 
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Location: Scotland
would a soft caveson have enough brakes ??
I just need to have confidence so that if he takes of I can stop him
thanks
Ali :f:


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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:14 pm 
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AliMrC wrote:
would a soft caveson have enough brakes ??
No. Not in terms of physically hampering the horse when he decided not to listen to your cues.
I can relate to your worries of not being able to stop your horse in case of emergency, but in the end, that's not really what bitless bridles are about, aren't they? Besides, the only thing that really makes riding safer in the end is how well your "brake" cue is established, whatever that cue is. No physical device can make up for that I'm afraid.

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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Houyhnhnm wrote:
Besides, the only thing that really makes riding safer in the end is how well your "brake" cue is established, whatever that cue is. No physical device can make up for that I'm afraid.


Indeed. If I had to rely on the physical severity of the tack in order to be able to brake, this would be a clear indication that I have to go several steps back in my training. If my horses chose not to stop when I was asking for it, my choice would be to

(1) Make sure they understand what I am asking, even if I am not giving the perfect seat cue in that situation for whatever reason. I do this by establishing a stop signal that they always understand - for me that's an audible breathing out for example. At the same time, I would work on my regular stop cue and reward for any reaction to it, so that in a situation where the horse is not quite sure what to do, stopping will be his very first idea, simply becaue it has become an overlearned, automatic reaction to my cue.

(2) Make sure that I am not getting them into situations where they feel too overwhelmed to respond to me.

For me personally, if I had a bridle to which the horse reacted although he decided to ignore a simple halter in the same situation, this alone would be a reason to be very wary of using that bridle. I find it way too scary to rely on the ability to "make the horse stop" with a mechanical device. For me, those devices are not meant to be about control but as a support in our communication. But I don't see them as a substitute for that communication. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:00 am
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Location: Scotland
I can stop my horse easily with my seat :thumleft:

i was riding him just now in his school with his hackamores reins just knotted on his neck and me riding with a cordeo :applause:

i can stop , turn , back up . etc. with a cordeo

it is just i suppose for my confidence when we are out on a hack ...... i suppose i will just have to fall of a couple of times :pale:

i was thinking of going for the transcend bridle because then i can ride of the noseband and just use the curb when emergency stop is needed??

cheers Ali :f:


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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 2:18 pm 
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Have you tried to ride with two things combined? Like a normal bit, with a caveson or halter underneath/over it and two reins?
I can perfectly understand that riding with just a halter or cordeo on a hack is quite a leap of faith. But If you always have your old system to fall back to, you can take up the other reins whenever you feel the need to. And maybe, by and by, you can use them lesser and lesser and one day leave them at home :).

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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:18 pm 
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Location: Scotland
good idea I will try that :clap:

but I wont use a bit ,because he absolutely detests them he will rear and spin and buck and kick, so I will use my hackamore instead and then with the halter underneath :cheer:

ohh and where can I find a soft caveson I am kinda put of using a halter because I don't want to take his eye out ??

cheers Ali :f:


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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:15 pm 
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I am using that one from Josepha's shop:
http://www.equihof-webshop.com/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=247

There's also one in this German shop:
http://www.elcaballo.de/Kappzaume/306-3015-Viena

But I'm sure that you can find those things in the UK as well...

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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:45 pm 
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Location: Belgium/Tielt-Winge
We use a cavesson as well, both Kim and I tried several different bridles, from Dr. Cook to rope halters, bosals, sidepulls and also a bit. But both our horses love their cavesson...

About stopping, for me personnaly I believe that if your horse really doesn't stop because he is panicking a cavesson will work just as a regular bit, you need one rein to bend your horses neck around... even the strongest device will not stop a horse on the run, it might even scare it more, the only thing that has ever worked for me is taking one rein and getting the head to the side. So I would not worry about the control-issue, I believe you do not have less control in a cavesson, your horse might even stop more easily because there is less pressure and less pain involved in the soft leather noseband than when you use a bit or a stronger bitless bridle (like a mechanical hackamore).

I haven't had a runaway horse since I ride him with the cavesson, I think this is because our communication is a lot softer now.

I wish I could write as nice as the others, I'm just not as good at putting things in words as they are... but I just wish you the best of luck with it!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Best bitless
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:00 am
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Location: Scotland
Barbara wrote:
We use a cavesson as well, both Kim and I tried several different bridles, from Dr. Cook to rope halters, bosals, sidepulls and also a bit. But both our horses love their cavesson...

About stopping, for me personnaly I believe that if your horse really doesn't stop because he is panicking a cavesson will work just as a regular bit, you need one rein to bend your horses neck around... even the strongest device will not stop a horse on the run, it might even scare it more, the only thing that has ever worked for me is taking one rein and getting the head to the side. So I would not worry about the control-issue, I believe you do not have less control in a cavesson, your horse might even stop more easily because there is less pressure and less pain involved in the soft leather noseband than when you use a bit or a stronger bitless bridle (like a mechanical hackamore).

I haven't had a runaway horse since I ride him with the cavesson, I think this is because our communication is a lot softer now.

I wish I could write as nice as the others, I'm just not as good at putting things in words as they are... but I just wish you the best of luck with it!!!


You write beautifully :thumleft:

thanks I never thought of that !!!


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