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 Post subject: The LG Bridle
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:05 pm
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Location: Natal, South Africa
I just received an LG Bridle and would appreciate your comments - criticisms as well please. This is an expensive item and I need to decide if I want to order one. I have got this one until the 6th May for testing. My hubby gets here tomorrow morning and I will ask him to make a video of me riding in it.

"The LG Bridle™—an innovative bitless bridle for horses ... — was invented by Monika Lehmenkühler, of Cologne, Germany."

Here is the website:
http://www.lgbridle.com/

I have put it on Freckles this morning and, after he looked OK with it, I tried ramener and flex left.

This is what it looks like on his left
Image

and underneath.
Image

I think I must move the cheek-straps one space towards the chin. Note: if I buy one I will pad it with sheepskin.

Then I relaxed to see what he would do. He pused his lips
Image
walked a quarter circle around me
Image

Do you think I understood him properly? I scratched him a bit and told him he would get treats for correct responses.

I went to his withers and gently "felt and released" rhythmically on both reins
Image
Image

Beautiful ramener! But I was slow to stop asking ...
Image

Then I did the same thing with the left rein only
Image
It must have been too strong! So I tried again but much softer.
Image
Much better!

Then my instructor arrived and looked at this thing with some suspicion - hahaha, she's a skeptic but usually willing to try! I asked her to try request half-halt, and a flex and tell me if, as advertised, it is equal to a snaffle. She liked it! She agrees that Freckle's response is better! Cool!

But in many ways your opinions are more important to me. So please share exactly what you think, and I promise I will assume it's all said with the best intentions!

PS. I'm sorry this post is so long.

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Glen Grobler

Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


Last edited by Glen Grobler on Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:45 pm 
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I have never seen this in reality, but from the pictures I wonder about the leverage effect (or however you call it) due to the reins on the front parts of the wheel... I don´t know if that´s what you want? It looks as if you could only use the reins backwards and not sideways in any way, because the other side of the wheel would directly move into the horse´s head.

Surely you can also fix the reins further backwards, pad the noseband and maybe this sideways thing isn´t that serious after all... But what about a simple sidepull, caveson or BB?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:52 pm 
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Location: Belgium
Personaly, I would never put it on my horses heads nor sell it in my shop.

It starts from the same basics as a bit, a spur.. you name it.
To me it is much like a hackemore (Which is a very severe tool as well).

It is all about control and pressure.

Dr. Cook is as far as I would go (The noseband way up high!), then the Equihof bridle or soft vienna cavesson and last of course the cordeo...

To me, if you can get the head down easy with a bridle, it is a big no no.
I think such tool is a very dangerous tool to play with...

Warm regards,

Josepha

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 1:31 pm 
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But it don't HAVE to have the hackamore effect if you put the rains another place.... Maybe there will be some still, but not so much. And all my horses puts their heads down or wherever they are asked with ALL tack - halter, bridle, BB or nohting (not so much the shetties yet with no tack). So it is not neccecerrily something wrong if the horse does that either...

But - I am sorry, I also have to agree with the other - I really did not like it that much. I also think both a halter, a regular BB, Josephas BB or Josephas cavesson is waaaaay much better... :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm
Posts: 147
I think a mild rubber snaffle bit would be better than this bridle. Your horse does not look happy with it on and from looking at how the pressures would work I can see why-ouch. Anything with metal pushing into the horses face and a chain curb strap will be a extreme bridle-bitless or not.

Why not try a rope halter bridle with extra knots? or a Dr cook? http://cgi.ebay.com/Maroon-with-Black-R ... less-Bridl
e-Hackamore_W0QQitemZ280219805368QQihZ018QQcategoryZ1048QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Maybe try this one for a few day-see how your horse feels and then decide. Trying out new tack is sooo much fun and good luck!

Melanie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:14 pm 
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Location: Natal, South Africa
Romy, Josepha and Kirsti.

Thanks for responding.

Romy,
Yes, the leverage effect could be severe depending on where the cheek-straps, noseband, curb and reins are attached. ( :shock: it is also possible to buy 2 inch shanks like on a hackamore.)

The "training progression" does have the reins moving more and more back as the horse learns appropriate responses. I adjusted it according to "untrained horse" settings, and it feels too strong to me, so that's why I said I think I should move the cheek-straps.

I did use the reins sideways while I was on the ground, and there is 2 or 3 mm movement of the whole "wheel" against his face - I would pad them, and the noseband and curb, if I bought one.

I have tried him in a sidepull and a cavesson with very poor results - he did twice as much head-shaking and "leaning" as he does with the snaffle.

I will have the chance to ride with a Dr. Cooks in May in Cape Town, so can't respond to that yet. He is quite hairy below his jaw and that bothers me a bit.

Josepha.
Quote:
To me, if you can get the head down easy with a bridle, it is a big no no.
I think such tool is a very dangerous tool to play with...

I have taught him to lower his head with a halter, but I have never achieved a halfway decent "ramener" movement until this morning. So I like that, but we will see what happens when I ride in it ...

Quote:
the Equihof bridle or soft vienna cavesson


:lol: I intend to "test" those in October - I hope you wll bring some!

.
Quote:
and last of course the cordeo...


I hope to eventually be able to ride in a cordeo, but between now and then I am searching for something that "feels" like a bit (because I am familiar with that) and lets us both be confident enough to progress. I can move this noseband higher, and will be fiddling and adjusting all week! For now, I have set it up according to examples for starting.

Kirsti,

Quote:
a halter, a regular BB, Josephas BB or Josephas cavesson is waaaaay much better...


Very likely - I'm waiting impatiently to test them!

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Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:20 pm 
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Location: Natal, South Africa
Melanie,

I wish to go bitless, so while a rubber snaffle would probably work, it's still a bit and I'd (we'd) prefer not at all.

The first thing I tried was a rope-halter, and after doing ground-work in it for a day, he wouldn't let me put it on him the next day! So I'm trying alternatives - I will eventually find the right answer. :lol:

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Glen Grobler



Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 2:31 pm 
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Glen Grobler wrote:
Josepha wrote:
To me, if you can get the head down easy with a bridle, it is a big no no.
I think such tool is a very dangerous tool to play with...

I have taught him to lower his head with a halter, but I have never achieved a halfway decent "ramener" movement until this morning.


And THAT would frighten me about this bridle. Not that he does ramener in it, but that he doesn´t do it in a headstall without leverage, but then suddenly does it in this bridle. If you want to work on ramener, what about teaching it by targetting your hand under his chin (paired with some sort of body or voice cue) instead? But I guess that again I am moving away from what you were asking about.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:52 pm 
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I think the ramener was caused by the arrangement of the straps in the picture, which is going more for the leverage-action (reins placed further forwards).

However, when you place the reins one part further to the back, the leverage is erased, and then it's acting like a cavesson or side-pull, with a bit more stability because there are metal parts in the bridle that give it more shape.

I've been thinking of buying one for the driving with the ponies, and really liked it's simple design and how you can experiment with various attachments without necessarily immediately having more leverage. In the end I decided against it, as the two metal circles with shetland sized heads are placed right on that part of the head where they might squeeze the cheeks of the horse between the premolars, which can't be a lot of fun. 8)

However, with your horse they're placed more towards the nose and away from the premolars, and you shouldn't have that problem. You can still ask youself if you would want a large metal part on his cheeks which doesn't really follow his anatomy, but it doesn't need to harm your horse if you put all the straps in the right place.

- By the way: I removed 3/4 of the pictures as they are all very similar and the overload makes this page hard to open. If I deleted an important one, you can of course always put them back!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:25 pm 
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Location: Belgium
Or you can off course also use a rope halter.
There once was a test here and this came out the best. Because it gives very clear signals to your horse. And I really like riding in a rope halter, but make sure it has a good quality.
The less there is on a horse, the more I like it. But it would be irresponsible for me and my horse to ride with a cordeo always and everywhere, especially along the roads.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:10 am
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Location: Barcelona, Spain
The bridle looks as though it's made of leather to me..........I know I'm a monomaniac on this, but can someone please explain to me how it is acceptable to use strips of one animal's skin to control another? When there are excellent synthetic materials to hand?
Rita

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:29 pm
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Leather has been used for 1000's of years bu humans and I do not think using leather on a horse is wrong-would you rather the millions of hides from the meat industry be garbage? Yes it would be better if that industry did not exsist...but it does and I would rather use the by products than thrown away. Synthetic materials are harder on the planet as they do not break down naturally and are manufactured using a lot of energy/chemicals.

I like leather, it breathes, wears very nice, it handles the weather well if cleaned/oiled and lasts for years.

melanie


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:45 pm 
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as Miriam was saying, after looking on the website I saw that if you put it further back that the leverage is gone, leaving it to be a sidepull, so I think that would be better. I don't understand why the "untrained horse" should have such a harsh bridle and the well trained a lighter one... I would put it light from the start, an untrained horse has not yet learned to push into anything I think...

But then why buy this bridle and start padding all those parts, I personally would buy one that would be ok from the start. I would say, just keep testing.

This LG bridle is definitely made for control, it is said a hundred times on the website, it is to stop a bolter ( says so on the website that a known bolter had a much shorter flight distance with this bridle) But I personally would not want to be able to shorten my flight distance so drastically, sounds painful to the horse...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:00 pm 
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Thinking about this discussion (and the last one) a little bit, there is one question that I have: Why do you want to go bitless? Sorry if this sounds strange, I don´t mean to. I just think that the answer to this question could be essential for your choice of a bridle.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:01 am 
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Location: Natal, South Africa
WOW! Very cool! Lots to respond to - great! Thanks everyone.

Romy,
Quote:
And THAT would frighten me about this bridle. Not that he does ramener in it, but that he doesn´t do it in a headstall without leverage, but then suddenly does it in this bridle. If you want to work on ramener, what about teaching it by targetting your hand under his chin (paired with some sort of body or voice cue) instead? But I guess that again I am moving away from what you were asking about.

You're not moving away from what I'm searching for, even though it initially appears to be off-topic. I did try to teach ramener in a headstall (hand on poll, hand on nose, stroke neck, etc.) but ended up with "nose at knee level" :shock: and chin-target attempts have resulted in neck-muscle crunching :shock: but both of those have other benefits, so our communication is still not where very clear. I have noticed before on other things that Freckles appears to need me to "physically manipulate" him once or twice to show him what I'm asking, and then he does it readily. Getting that first "correct response" is difficult, however. So I'm looking for a way to communicate better as well as a way to ride without a bit.
Quote:
Thinking about this discussion (and the last one) a little bit, there is one question that I have: Why do you want to go bitless? Sorry if this sounds strange, I don´t mean to. I just think that the answer to this question could be essential for your choice of a bridle.

Before I found AND I didn't know that bits were painful for horses. Having that knowledge means I cannot, in good concience, continue to use one. That defines Freckle's "comfort-zone." Rightly or wrongly I believe that educating a horse is a combination of groundwork and riding, so I don't want to stop riding. I am familiar with using a bit to communicate with a horse when riding. That defines my "comfort-zone." (Obviously, the seat, balance, legs and weight distribution of the rider are equally (if not more) important - that's a whole discussion by itself and I am studying and improving.) I am searching for a bitless bridle that gives me the "feel" I know, as well as being good for Freckles.

Barbara,
While I've got this noseband for testing, I intend to feel it at all the possible settings - The instructions say that using more leverage on a green horse keeps them responsive to lighter hands while they learn. They emphasise the need for sensitive rein-handling many times. The article about the bolter didn't say it, but I think the LG used there had shanks attached to increase the leverage even more :shock: Hahaha, I have been reducing his flight distance on the ground, and it is translating to ridden without any further effort!
Ummmm ... I'm thinking aloud here, but that fact that it's designed for control doesn't neccessarily make it harsh or unacceptable. A measure of control is required for the safety of the horse and the human. As the relationship improves, the control moves from the tools to the emotions, but that is fostered by sensitive use of certain tools? Or something like that, anyway! :lol:

Rita and Melanie,
My bridle is leather, but these LG nosebands are synthetic! I don't actuaully have a preference. Leather needs more care, but synthetics are more difficult to dispose of ecologically, so I guess there's pro's and cons for both! BTW, I have one synthetic and one leather saddle, too! Purely coincidental!

Tanja,
I can't use a rope-halter - he hates them. I tried!

Miriam,
Quote:
I think the ramener was caused by the arrangement of the straps in the picture, which is going more for the leverage-action (reins placed further forwards).

Yes, it was. That's what I liked. It's been difficult for me to "show" Freckles how to carry his head. This created some lift in the neck as well as a good break at the poll. Then I didn't release fast enough so he overbent, but that was my fault. I have been able to get the bend at the poll, and the raised neck, but never together. So I'm thinking this might ease the learning curve and we can end up using it as a side-pull. I still want to adjust the position of the band on the nose to maybe an inch or so higher - I have to punch extra holes in the cheek-straps to raise it! I don't intend to do much with it before that! Ouch!
:lol: About the pics - I was hoping to also learn if I'm interpreting his signals correctly and would have replaced them with a link after a day or so anyway!

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Words that soak into your ears are whispered...not yelled. Anon


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