The Art of Natural Dressage

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 Post subject: leadrope
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:01 pm
Posts: 4
Leadropes are mostly ending in a nice leather.whatever. Did you ever hit yourselves with such endings..........really painfull.

just cut them from your leadrope and atach a nice end. unreveal the nylon end for about 10 cm and make a binding.........looks much friendly an no one gets hurt.

greetings,

Stephanus


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 Post subject: Re: leadrope
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:05 am 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1983
Location: provincie Utrecht
i think when you hit something with a leadrope you dont use it in the correct way.
It is a LEAD rope ;)

The leather is used for make a good end on a leadrope so it won't unravel.
Or you get an end which wont look that nice as a human wanted to see.


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 Post subject: Re: leadrope
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Location: Vienna, Austria
Yesterday I pulled the end of my leadrope out from between Mucki´s legs and unfortunately the twisting leather end slapped Mucki over his grazing lips :sad:. In his reactions I could see how it hurt him and I apologised for my stupid carelessness :pale:.
Still I´m not sure if I will remove the leather - I definitely have to be more careful with it. It´s a lesson for every tool I use. I use whips too sometimes and I have to learn to be careful with them too...

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 Post subject: Re: leadrope
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1983
Location: provincie Utrecht
Houyhnhnm wrote:
I use whips too sometimes and I have to learn to be careful with them too...

maybe you could change your whip for a carrot stick. And i dont mean to make some advertisement. ;)
But there is a big difference between a carrot stick and a whip.

a whip is for a correction. A whip is light and fast in his movement, so you give a very quick sign.
If you keep a whip in front of you and you move your hand a little the whip will immidiately follow your hand and it will go up and down. It moves in a fast way.

A carrot stick is for define things, to support your bodylanguage.
If you keept the carrot stick in front of you and you move your hand a little, the carrotstick will move slowly, just slightly a bit slower than you hand was moving. (a bit of a delay if you can say it that way in english.)
So you can not be fast which make it better to follow for the horse, so he can understand better what you ask.

It depents ofcourse which idea you have when you work with it. positive of negative reinforcement and so on.

i believe that the story of Parelli is that he called it a carrot stick to remind people that they have use it in a friendly way.
carrot is in the mind of people food for a horse as a reward, so it is friendly....
and then colours it orange and the carrot stick is born ;)


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 Post subject: Re: leadrope
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:10 am
Posts: 3688
Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
inge wrote:

a whip is for a correction. A whip is light and fast in his movement, so you give a very quick sign.
If you keep a whip in front of you and you move your hand a little the whip will immidiately follow your hand and it will go up and down. It moves in a fast way.

A carrot stick is for define things, to support your bodylanguage.
If you keept the carrot stick in front of you and you move your hand a little, the carrotstick will move slowly, just slightly a bit slower than you hand was moving. (a bit of a delay if you can say it that way in english.)
So you can not be fast which make it better to follow for the horse, so he can understand better what you ask.

It depents ofcourse which idea you have when you work with it. positive of negative reinforcement and so on.

i believe that the story of Parelli is that he called it a carrot stick to remind people that they have use it in a friendly way.
carrot is in the mind of people food for a horse as a reward, so it is friendly....
and then colours it orange and the carrot stick is born ;)


I've seen videos of Pat using the carrot stick string to strike the horse to punish. He calls it a "spank." The incident I remember was to move the horse on a circle. The horse stood for one strike on the ground, then a second strike on the ground but closer to the horse, then his "spank," which was pretty hard. I could not do that to my horses.

As I commit more and more fully to +R, positive reward work, I find carrying anything that has a potential to threaten or hurt to be counterproductive. I don't want the horse thinking about threat.

In fact, because I use targeting so much, and that is an object on a old skinny dustpan handle, I do not want the horse associating the target with a whip or stick.

I think a lot of body language is in fact threat language in horse terms, what they use in the herd with each other - pressure. There are of course some directly positive gestures and invitation movements that aren't.

But if I am going to use strictly positive reward and capture a behavior and mark it with a sharp sound that is all I want the horse to experience - nothing negative or potentially negative.

I keep a stick and string, and in fact an old collection of various whips, but find so little use for them they are just relics, antiques, now.

I noticed that when I carried one while I was doing positive behavioral work it also distracted me from the task and goals of true positive work. Of course I have twenty years of pressure work to break the habit of. LOL

_________________
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.


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 Post subject: Re: leadrope
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:33 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:20 am
Posts: 6076
Location: Dresden, Germany
I have split the topic so that the body language discussion got its own thread: Body language and intent.

Please continue posting body language things over there, and leadrope related thoughts here. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: leadrope
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:20 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:03 am
Posts: 760
I like to use a leadrope to swing in a circle in front of me sometimes when I lead a horse that insists on pulling ahead. This can be a dangerous behavior and even though the horse can get hit by the end of the lead rope if they charge ahead they have the choice to avoid the leadrope and if they do get hit it's not very hard not even hard enough to hit me (I've done it many times by accident), and more of a nuisance to the horse. I use whips in a similar way sometimes waving them back and forth to protect my own personal space with a horse that is snaking it's head at me or acting otherwise pushy. Most of the time I use a whip like a carrot stick and I actually now prefer the whip because I'm forced to make slow movements with it to avoid the snapping/wiggling effect. It seems to help me and the horse to have a calmer mindset. I do think it's very important to completely desensitize horses to whips because of the possibility of being around other horse people who use them or use similar objects like whips with flags attached, ropes, lariats, etc.
Birgit


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