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PostPosted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:00 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:46 am
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Hello Everyone,
I have read through all of the posts I could find on this, but felt I should just ask.
I know many of you have or are currently experimenting with different bitless bridle alternatives, so I would love your opinions on the Dr.Cook bitless compaired to the nurtural. From the designs, I think I would perfer the Nurtural as it seems like it would give more even pressure with a quicker release, but I have no personal experience with either.
Your opinions are greatly appreciated!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
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Location: provincie Utrecht
see http://www.artofnaturaldressage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3736
some little info

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:32 am
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Location: Marlborough, New Zealand
I am also looking into bridle options. Both my horses work really well in a halter,cordeo or sidepull type in the paddock but am wanting to get out and about do the next trail riding season and am worried about saftey. Obviously with more excitement and more horses passing etc, may provide more challenges.

The Dr Cook website says that it is pain free, where a sidepull puts a lot of pressure on the nose. I know that with training etc and members of this forum wouldn't do, but I have seen a lot of pictures lately of horses with dents and wounds on their noses from halters etc.

Is there a scientific study done on the various bitless brides and the pressure points ie. nerves, bone structure etc.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:48 am 
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To me there is nothing safer and more kind than the soft cavesson designed by Antoine De Pluvinel in the 17th century. Attache the reins to the nose piece and work on the soft flexions for safe and healthy communications, every where. You keep your horse's attention and the adrenaline stays low as it can not hurt your horse if fitted correctly. Also it keeps your horse from leaning on his shoulders and 'running down hill'.

Hope these pictures works:

Image

Image

Also check out http://www.bitlessdressage.com

:)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:50 pm 
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Location: provincie Utrecht
dee wrote:
Is there a scientific study done on the various bitless brides and the pressure points ie. nerves, bone structure etc.


yes there is done by the same person Dr. R.W.Cook in his book you can read some things about it.

When you misuse any kind of bitless bridle you get problems.
I see it this way, when people who riding bitless get injurys on the horses nose or where ever on the head they pulling on the reins waaaay to hard.
They will do the same in the horses mouth but then they won't see the damage.

You have to ride bitless the same as with a bit, just a viberation in the reins is enough to make your command clear to the horse.
You dont have to pull...never....
i hear also often that there is no release when they ride with a crossed bridle such as a Cook or a chin crossed bridle.
Those people pull to much on the reins. They have often a constant rein contact which is to heavy.
It have to be light, you may not feel constantly that you have contact. The contact points are split seconds only when needed.
Just to give a signal when you wanna change a gait, or turn or collection.

And there is no tack which can give you savety. That is in your communication with the horse.
It is in our mind. As long you dont trust yourself, yourhorse outside during a trail ride. So dont do it. That will give problems.
Even if you should ride with a bit, when you dont trust it, dont do it.

Work on your relation with the horse before you going out. (or even sit on the horse)

oh and btw the horse does feel a bridle, it can feel even a fly land on his skin.
When you pull a bitless bridle hard yes the horse will certainly feel it, and it can be painfull, but way less then the same power in his mouth. People do forget that.
And when the horse show it, we use a extra strap around the mouth so the horse can not open his mouth anymore. So he had no pain because they dont see it anymore.

When you misuse a bitless bridle you can see it always at the skin of the horse. you can not hide it. ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:32 am
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Location: Marlborough, New Zealand
Thanks for your advice everyone.

I am not a heavy handed rider and we do normally ride in a cordeo or in the halter part of an endurance bridle in everyday riding and they go great. I have also done a few trail rides in a halter as well which they went great too. I did have a little issue when walking round at the finish line once while we were waiting for a vet to take a heart rate. All cappy wanted to do was go back to the float and tried walking in the opposite direction. It all worked out though.

I also trust my babies and feel totally safe both at home and out and about, other wise I wouldn't do it.

I was mostly curious about any scientific studies done on bitless bridles, like there is on bitted bridles. ie with the dr cook bridles how much pressure in measures is applied to the poll, what is the possible damage that can be caused to nerves, blood flow bone structure etc. Same with all the other forms of bitless bridles / cavessons on the cheecks and nose.

I keep thinking that (in make believe pound measurement) if a side pull uses 1lb on a cheeck and a cross over uses .5lb on cheeck and .5lb on the poll which one would be better. Does it work like that?

Hope that makes sense. Thanks

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:26 am 
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Location: provincie Utrecht
i dont think you can change the bone structure because then you have already problems on the skin.
So in my opinion (i am not a scientific person) it is impossible.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:00 am 
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Quote:
with the dr cook bridles how much pressure in measures is applied to the poll, what is the possible damage that can be caused to nerves, blood flow bone structure etc. Same with all the other forms of bitless bridles / cavessons on the cheecks and nose.


It all equates back to the hands of the rider. If you don't pull (and one should never pull) then there is no possibility of injury. It doesn't matter what bitless head gear one uses...the most important thing is how good is the rider. How balanced, how light on the rein, how the reins are used, whether the horse was properly schooled on the ground first, how balanced the horse is and whether the symmetry has been addressed. Does the horse have a relaxed topline - a swinging back and a free stride. Does the horse have mental composure and if not, is the rider equipped to help them find that composure? Is the poll relaxed and can the horse carry a rider in a way that does not cause physical distress to the horse?

So many factors to consider. :yes:

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:39 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:00 am
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Quote:
So many factors to consider. :yes:

No kidding, here is what I am looking into http://www.sstack.com/western_training_ ... g-caveson/

I am currently riding in a bitted sidepull now and want to take that aspect of training down a notch. Perhaps I should let the situation plateau for a second before progressing forward.
Thank you ;)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:48 pm 
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That is not a cavesson... there are no rings on the nose (which is vital to lunge without locking the jaw and back and weighing the inside shoulder which happens with a bit or a halter). And there is nog jawstrap.

Looks like a nice bitless bridle though :)

This is a cavesson or the picture above I placed:
Image

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:55 pm 
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That "cavesson" is almost identical to what I use as a bridle with Tam. It was called a "jumping cavesson" when I bought it, but I think more appropriately, it is an english hackamore. Just as Josepha says, it makes a great bitless bridle, but it is not appropriately set up to be a lunging cavesson. I can lunge Tam in it if I chose to, but only because he is already relaxed in the poll and responds appropriately to the slightest tension on those side rings. If one wants to school a horse and if one needs to help the horse find the physical relaxation needed for appropriate and correct movement, having a ring on the noseband is more helpful. :f: :f:

So basically, I second everything Josepha already said! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:00 am
Posts: 10
Thank you all for your replies :) Could someone send plaease send me link to the type of caveson that you all are talking about. I can find them but only in western. I am planing on using the "bitless rig" for everything from dressage to trail riding to jumping. It would be grreat if it could match all of the oakbark tack that I already own. If one could be found in dressage black/white that would be nice too.
Kindly,
Akasha_willow :f:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:54 am 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 2008
Location: provincie Utrecht
i use this one
i give you a link, because the pics are to big for placing here.
http://www.bitloosrijden.nl/website/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/weensekatoombitloosrijdenklein.jpg
http://www.bitloosrijden.nl/website/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/weensekatoombitloosrijdenneusdetailzijkantklein.jpg

they call it a vienna caveson or in dutch weensekaptoom
it is one without iron in the nose.

you can do everthing with it. From dressage to cross and groundwork

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:34 pm 
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Location: Belgium
Here is mine :)

http://www.equihof-webshop.com/product_ ... anguage=en

We also have them in nylon:
http://www.equihof-webshop.com/product_ ... cts_id=588

For movies of work with it go to:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TaonaraTV?feature=mhee


Regards,

Josepha

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:05 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:00 am
Posts: 10
Is there anything wrong with the Dr. Cook's model?


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