The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:48 pm 
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Volker, I echo the thought that it depends both on horse and rider, I think.

I've used a Cook's on Stardust and he did really, really well in it. What Sue said about Red I found to be true of Stardust. He was so relieved not to have a bit in his mouth but also felt relaxed in the kind of communicating we could do to work towards collection with it:

Quote:
I got the crossunder originally for Red because I've noticed that traditionally trained dressage horses often seem to understand the action of it very well and will collect on contact, whereas he was poking his nose out and feeling lost in the sidepull. (And because it LOOKS so smart! )


I had been using the Cook's with Circe (before we got to the land of solving horse management issues rather than actually training-- can't WAIT for this phase to be over!!), and am thinking that I'm going to go with something else with her. Have also worked her in a soft, thick rope halter, which has been less than ideal -- I don't feel like I can finesse her at all in it. She really doesn't like having stuff on her face/head, and so I'm feeling like the Cook's may not be the best answer for her... (I have not had, BTW, problems with the Cook's not releasing -- the beta version (artificial leather) doesn't seem to have this problem at all.)

I'm looking at the sidepull that Karen mentioned and thinking that this might be a good next try...

So, I think it's about experimenting and figuring out what you both like!

Best,
Leigh

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:37 pm 
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I simply can not work with any other bridle then the one Antoine De Pluvinel used and invented.
All my students ride with one too: Ths soft Cavesson.

http://www.equihof-webshop.com/product_ ... cts_id=247


:)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:16 am 
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I use an LG Bridle. Here is a short video of someone else that I found which shows the bridle nicely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhvyCcUVwoI

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:12 pm 
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Leigh wrote:
So, I think it's about experimenting and figuring out what you both like!
I´ll do that, rest assured! ;) But with this very informative discussion here, I have a nice head start!

Glen Grobler wrote:
I use an LG Bridle.
Ah, the LG Bridle! I thought about using it too. Glen, do you want to share your experience with it? Pros and cons of the LG Bridle? Do you have any comparison to other bitless bridles? I´d love to hear about it...

Right now, I´m flirting with this one: http://www.hidalgo-sattel.com/products/de/Zaumzeug-Kappzaum/Marjomn-Kappzaum-Viena.html or an LG bridle...

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:18 am 
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I had the opportunity to use an LG Bridle for 2 weeks before deciding to buy it or not. I have no regrets that I chose to get it.

I initially liked the statement that the manner and method of using your reins is the same for a snaffle bit and an LG bridle. I have since satisfied myself that this is mostly correct. This makes it easy and safe for an already trained horse to change to the LG. I recently learned that it works very well the other way around when Freckles had to wear a bit for this showjumping training and experience I have sent him for.

I like that it is "adjustable" from sidepull to slight poll pressure to the kind of leverage you can get with a hackamore. I like that it does not need to be tight around the horse's muzzle. I like that it hangs on a "normal" bridle.

I have ridden my horses with halters, hackamores, sidepulls and various bitless bridles and I find that generally they are not able to be as subtle as a bitted bridle. The LG is able to be as subtle.

There are, in my opinion, two significant "problems" with the LG and I find that both of them are relatively simple to correct or accommodate.
One is that the material that the nose-band is made of is a kind of rubber which, in my sub-tropical climate, promotes a line of sweat on the horse's nose which can lead lead to rubbing and discomfort - easily overcome by sheathing the base strap in felt or sheepskin or some such material.
The second is that, if you have the LG set for maximum leverage and you apply an "opening hand" (moving your hand with the rein sideways away from the wither) the LG wheel will rotate in the "wrong" plane until perpendicular to the horse's face which is very uncomfortable for the horse. However, the instructions that I got for using the LG did say that the leverage position is the least desirable and should only be used as a schooling tool to overcome specific issues and should not be the normal riding position.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:19 pm 
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Location: provincie Utrecht
just back from holiday i will write a answer as soon i have everything done over here.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:05 pm 
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I ride most of the time with a Cook bridle. This is for us a fine bridle i ride and drive with this bridle.
That is maybe also why i use this one the most. And easy to pick up each day because it is the first bridle ;)

But i have ridden with almost every bitless bridle which you can buy in the Netherlands. i have notist a lot of slighty different signals between the bridles. Although the system is the same.
For example we have i think more then 10 different bridles which are cheek crossing such as the Cook bridle does.
Each bridle give a other signal to the horse, some they like and some not. Because of the release? Or the material? The stifness of the material? The form of the opencheeks? i dont know, some of the bridles i could not even ride with it, because he did not wanted to have it on his head, (headshaking and dont wanna go forwards)
It is quite hard to say why the first bridle is o.k and the second not, the horse may speak :huh:

i have also used several sidepulls, every sidepull was o.k none give any problem. But i have got some feelings with the hard nose sidepulls. I dont think it is neccessery for my horse. And some i did not like exterior i am not fond of bling bling ;)
But those are personal thoughts and not functional for the horse or his behavior.

The LG zaum i did not tryed it because the wheels are a bit to big for my pony's, but i have tryed it on bigger horses and it was o.k for them. The rider and horse were fine, even after more days riding with it.

The chin cross under are fine too, My ponys did not give any resistence or what ever. There are also several versions of this kind of bridles available over here. Each have his own specialtys such as the merothische bridle.
The light rider was the last one i tryed, this is not a cross under but a plain under. I dont know how to write it in english.
It is not a crossing peach but one strap goes under the chin. This one works fine too.
It squeeze different then the others when you pull the reins.

Then you have a mix between all this the Nurtural Bridle a mix between the cross under and a sidepull. Because of the circle X it give a other signal then the Cook bridle. It could be handy for horses with long beards in the wintertime.
Some people say the the beard stuck between the opencheeks of the Cook bridle and when they ride with the Nurtural then they done have this problem anymore. The reaction of the horses are the same. So the riders were happy.
I think also that there is a slightly less pressure on the poll with the Nurtural due to the Circle X. So for those horses it could be also a good option.

In our country there is a possiblity to try several bitless bridles without buying it. You get a member of the club and then you can try each bridle you wanted. So you can find out which one is the best for the horse and you.
When you have find a good one you can buy one in a store or internet, they dont sell any so they can stay independent and neutral. And many people like that.
Each time there come a new bridle, they try to get them in there selection, it is still groing. Each year there come new ones.
So it become more and more difficult for the rider to choose.

My advise is find out what your horse prefer, he must give the final answer. He must understand your signals and it must fit well.
Give not any irritation or what ever. That will take some time to work it out. But then you have a good relation during the rides and none frustrations. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:03 am
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I like to use something with the simple action of the sidepull and the cheek-strap placement of a halter. Very simple for the horse to understand and little risk of scaring the horse like I've seen with the cross-under bridles. I do like to have a throat latch for security to keep the bridle from accidentally coming off even though it looks prettier without. :)
Birgit


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:00 am 
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I have to wonder if the "caress or grab the head," "or hold the horse's head," isn't just a marketing ploy. The point of bitless, to me, is to remove the hostile pressure of it, and not replace it with other hostile pressure.

Horse's evolving as prey know well that the ability to fight off the lion's grab of their head and attempt to bite their poll to break their spine is the ability to survive. I do NOT want something tightening around the nose and over the poll like the paws and claws and teeth of the lion, thank you.

Your simple sidepull is pretty much what I too use, and one of the reasons I'm inclined still to use the bosal, the large diameter that doesn't close and squeeze the nose if I pull a rein intentionally or inadvertently.

Just a plain old soft worn halter gives me all the "pressure," I need, which is none, just an artificial aid to cue with.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:02 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I have a Nurtural and a Lightrider. I've been using just the halter lately. I think Fanny likes the Nurtural more than the Lightrider, but seems even more relaxed in her halter.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:24 am 
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I've just ordered the Pluvinel cavesson from Josepha's shop the other day, so I might post my experiences soon. That is, if I'll be doing some proper riding soon :roll: ;).

What appeals to me most about that special "bridle" is it's versatility. I can ride with it, use it for in-hand groundwork, for lungeing, I could even use it as halter if I wanted too. And it does not have any moveable parts that can tighten around the nose - that's what I particularly like about it!
I hope it's as good as I imagine it ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:08 pm 
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Ah, no tightening ... very good. That's my main complaint about so many brands of bitless - one way or the other there is entrapping and encirclement pressure. Please keep us apprized of the progress using this cavesson. I suppose, if it works as hoped, I might even order from as far as Europe for one.

Best wishes,

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Houyhnhnm wrote:
I've just ordered the Pluvinel cavesson from Josepha's shop the other day, so I might post my experiences soon. That is, if I'll be doing some proper riding soon :roll: ;).

What appeals to me most about that special "bridle" is it's versatility. I can ride with it, use it for in-hand groundwork, for lungeing, I could even use it as halter if I wanted too. And it does not have any moveable parts that can tighten around the nose - that's what I particularly like about it!
I hope it's as good as I imagine it ;)



OH VOLKER!!! I am SO jealous!!! :ieks: :ieks: :ieks: I want to order one of Josepha's cavessons so badly!! Please let me know how you like it! Your reasons for wanting one are the same as why I want one :yes: :thumright:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:19 pm
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Location: Estonia, Tallinn
What do people here think of Micklem multibridle (the bitless versions of it...).

http://www.williammicklem.com/multibrid ... ridle.html

?? :)

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:29 pm 
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iidala wrote:
What do people here think of Micklem multibridle (the bitless versions of it...).


We have a tiny little thread about it (only 2 posts). :smile:


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