The Art of Natural Dressage

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 Post subject: Treeless for ponies?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:20 pm
Posts: 1822
Location: Norway
I will (when I get a little more money 8) ) buy myself a treeless saddle. But I would really like to buy one for Lisa (welsh mountain) as well... I see barefoot london have a ponysize, but Lisa have a very short back. I wonder if I could use that still? How far back on the horseback should the saddle go (or don't go).

I would also have something good for the little shetties, but the pony"saddles" I have tried so far has not been good for them. Anyone any ideas?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:28 pm 
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Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
While I rode a great deal as a child, up into my teens, bareback, often as a young adult, for that matter, I have some questions about the concept of the treeless saddle.

In reading somewhere recently ... If I recall where I'll post it, the point was made by the author that if you were going to carry a weight on your back equal to say 20% of your weight, (30lbs for a 150lb person- 200lbs for a 1,000 lb horse) which would you prefer, a frameless loose packsack, or a packframe to distribute and control the load?

While I enjoyed bareback riding as a kid, I noted that when saddled my horses not only performed better (I was into gaming and long mountain and desert rides, often for days at a time) but lasted longer with less tiredness.

Has there been any research done on this that we might look at?

I know there are opinions :lol: but I am more interested in university level research by accredited academics, as we have seen done in recent years, to the benefit of the horse, research on horse vision characteristics.

That research completely changed long held beliefs about horse vision. (My own opinions included...and I had studied horse's eyes with an opthalmascope (sp)).

I wonder if going with or without saddles might be better answered from similar research.

If such research doesn't exist then the major universities that offer equine studies might be prevailed upon to do just that..study the saddle.

Thank you, Donald

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
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Location: The Hague, Netherlands
There is research present! With special pads they measure the pressure under the saddle. Treeless saddles are not good for heavy riders or riders wich have no balanced seat because indeed of the less divided weight. Its very suited for lightweight riders with round horses.
With the barefoot saddles (I have the London model) there is a special pad with special inlay to divide the weight better. But indeed.. when I make a mistake with my seat Evita picks this up earlier but on the other hand I can feel het backmuscles far better.
I tried a regular dressage saddle and the London and Evita preferred the London.
Indeed bareback is also not so good because of the weight issue and worse even from what I've heard are the bareback pads with stirrups wich put much weight on the vertebra where the stirrups are attached.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:42 pm 
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There is even a study to become "master saddle fitter" so luckily the importance of a good fitting saddle is becoming more and more an issue! As it should!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 8:12 am 
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Location: Norway
But do anyone know the answer of my questions??? :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:18 am 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
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Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Maybe Josepha? She sells Barefoot saddles!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:28 am 
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Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
Bianca wrote:
There is research present! With special pads they measure the pressure under the saddle. Treeless saddles are not good for heavy riders or riders wich have no balanced seat because indeed of the less divided weight. Its very suited for lightweight riders with round horses.
With the barefoot saddles (I have the London model) there is a special pad with special inlay to divide the weight better. But indeed.. when I make a mistake with my seat Evita picks this up earlier but on the other hand I can feel het backmuscles far better.
I tried a regular dressage saddle and the London and Evita preferred the London.
Indeed bareback is also not so good because of the weight issue and worse even from what I've heard are the bareback pads with stirrups wich put much weight on the vertebra where the stirrups are attached.


Ah, good news about the research then. When I have some time I'll go looking for it.

As for the saddle I would prefer, it would be stirrup bars more central to the length of the saddle so that I sat in the middle and could rise to the trot, should I wish, in a straight line UP. The common utility saddle makes me upset because it requires me to lean forward and to rise and thrust my pelvis forward, de-centering my body from the horses center.

I did a little clinic with a student who had this same problem, and her mare had, over time, become sulky and fussy because of this loss of connection between her and her rider.

As soon as I had her drop her stirrups the horse settled and moved more fluidly. Of course it was just a tad difficult to post. :D

Though of course it can be done if one is young and agile and light enough, or strong enough. I'm none of those any longer.

I helped, many years ago, when I rode western and trained, design with a saddle maker friend, a truly center balanced saddle. One could not ride against the cantle or pommel but was moved into the center point, front to back, by the movement of the horse.

He hung the stirrups where I wanted them, and he did something that ended up showing up, in time, on cutting horse saddles. He installed for me, kneerolls like on a jumping saddle.

People that watched me train were much taken with the idea. But you know how style is such a powerful force. Western saddles still have a low point in the seat back of center, and now they've gone to the old high-cantle again. Dear me, is that an improvement?

I'm interested in the treeless saddle you've discussed here, but the price is far out of my range. And I doubt I'll find used ones in north America.

Thanks for your time and thoughts, and the information you offered, each of you.

Donald

_________________
Love is Trust, trust is All
~~~~~~~~~
So say Don, Altea, and Bonnie the Wonder Filly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:33 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:29 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Richhill, Co Armagh, UK
http://www.inkydinky.uk.com/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:45 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:20 pm
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Location: Norway
Thank you! i've never seen those before, looked really nice...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 11:25 am 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:51 pm
Posts: 2055
Location: Netherlands
Can't you just try a pony Barefoot on and see how it fits? Over here we have a return policy if the saddle doesn't sit right or doesn't fit.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:20 pm
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Location: Norway
Yes, exept I can't get it in Norway - must to Denmark...

But it doesn't matter much yet, I don't have the money - and both Vilja and Lisa have to take some time get their fronthoofes work better before there is much riding....

Lisa is very short in her back - so I am a little afraid it is too long for her (the barefoot). I got the length of it from Denmark....


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
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Location: Belgium
Kirsti wrote:
But do anyone know the answer of my questions??? :lol:


Well yes :)

As I can see in the picture, you are slim enough to ride with the pony size barefoot london (seat size 0)

Make sure you are advised on the right pommel size for starters.
Second, do not ride without the special saddle pad in which you put the foam inlayes.

Maybe you can try a saddle out first with the store in your country?

Currently Ralph, Iris and I are working on a whole new saddle to tackle all problems for the non-TB/Warmblood horses who ride classical & Natural Dressage.
Owen is testcase with high withers, an extreme short back, very round ribs and larger shoulders...
A nightmare to find a saddle for and he tells your right away what he likes and dislikes, so ideal.

One of the other reasons why I am not so much here at the moment...
When there are questions about riding or saddles, please send me a PM as well next to your message here, so I'll know I'll have work to do :)

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 Post subject: treeless saddles
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:46 pm
Posts: 70
Location: Cave Junction Oregon
I believe this saddle must be treeless, it's too hilarious not to be. http://www.inkydinky.uk.com/ Just the name Inky Dinky? Can't wait for the grand daughter to be big enough.
Geraldine
Oregon

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:20 pm
Posts: 1822
Location: Norway
Thank you Josepha - but it was not for me :oops: It was meant for little Lisa and my daughter, and I suppose if I can get my big butt into it it will be way too big for them........ 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
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Location: Belgium
maybe not with the size 0 :)

Inky dinky?

Jill Shepherd is the maker...? I know here... She is Heather Moffett's saddler!

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