The Art of Natural Dressage

Working with the Horse's Initiative
It is currently Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:48 am

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:31 pm
Posts: 58
Location: maryland
I have used Dr Cooks Bitless Bridles for seven years now, I own 5 of them and then another Bitless by another company I can't rememeber right now.
One of my horses hated the BB and absolutely preferred a bit to ride with , until I figured out that the BB was adjusted too low on his nose and actually irritated him even with loose reins.
THe Cook BB mostly works on the nose . Do this experiment"
put the bridle on your horse , place your four fingers under the bridle in various places and apply the rein as if you were riding.
You will discover that it first puts pressure on the nose, then on the poll and the jaw IF you pull hard enough.
To me a BB is no kinder to a horse than a well fitting metal bit, unless the horse has mouth issues or bad past expereinces. I have braces in my mouth , the metal is not so much a issue. But I still prefer the BB for OTHER reasons. (it is clear to the horse, I know where his face is, I can use it as a halter and give the horse treats, etc etc)
THe big issue is the rider and how the rider uses the reins, not weather she communicates throuhg the mouth, the neck or the nose.
I think NHE are going after the wrong villain---the equipment-- that is why I am so glad I found this forum.
I want to interact with my my horse through kind , frindly, consistant communication that the horse easily undertands , not being bound by rules of equipment(or lack thererof ) that make no sense.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:04 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
I too as BBAC always tell people to put the noseband up higher then the manual says. :)

What I think of the bit:
www.bitloos.be
It's in eglish too. 8)

But you are right... first we need to address riders and teach them how the handle, train and ride horses without harming the horse.

The result of that very thing however is that in my experience; 1. a bit is not needed and 2. it can work contraproductive. :)

Braces on one's teeth are hardly the same then a bit with aplied pressure on one's sensitive bone, don't you agree?

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:08 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 4:25 pm
Posts: 476
Quote:
I have braces in my mouth , the metal is not so much a issue.


I don´t quite agree with you here. I have braces too. Yes, I get used to them and they don´t hurt anymore, but still it feels irritating sometimes and I am very happy when my braces can be removed! I don´t think we can compare the bit to braces, since our braces are fixed in our mouth. The thing I dislike about bits very much is that they move up and down in the horse mouth. This is, I think, the main reason why bits do hurt a horse: they can´t get used to the movement of the bit.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:31 pm
Posts: 58
Location: maryland
I only compared braces to the bit in that we are talking about metal in the mouth. THere are rubber bits also, so not very good comparasion in other ways.
I have been experimenting with bit vs bitless for years on different horses and have come to the conclusion with most of them that bits are not needed IF training is correct for both horse and rider.
ANd there is no excuse for me not to do my best to train correctly, sometimes just lack of understanding and time. THe physical part of riding and proper hands just takes practice.
But then there is the question of a occasional bolting horse. I have Canadians who have incredible strong necks and the young ones sometimes spook and bolt (like once when about 4 deer jumped out of the woods in front of the horse)I have not been able or willing (!) to experiment which would work better in a spook/spin like that. Or how to get the horse not to react at all in that situation.

But most of the horses I have had go equally well in the bit and the bitless when riding is a partnership and the reins, either attached to the bit or the crossover noseband, are used as a means of communication only, not as means of making the horse do something by force.
I do have a very physically strong youngster (5 yo)right now who was a stallion until a year ago and while the bitless is fine in the riding ring, he can easily ignore it when excited. I have done a lot of ground training with him , all in the bitless including ground driving but he can spin around on the trail and bolt when scared and there is nothing I can do from behind other than let go. He would stop and come right back to me when he was younger and before he bred the mare, and now he just runs to her and their colt if he gets scared. Very normal herd behaviour, he wants to be there to protect his family.
I know I am doing something wrong here , but I have nobody to turn for help here in this kind of training. (maybe this should be in another thread) I do not use any treats for training, so the mare and colt is much more enticing to him than I am. (he does not show any mounting behaviour, just wants to be with her and the colt)
Otherwise he runs with me, stops and goes with me, comes to me , leaves me, circles me , puts his feet on pedestal, and I have ridden him a little bit, with the bitless. (my husband has ridden him with the bit) WHen not thinking of his herd, he is very attentive, quick to learn and eager to please.
I don't understand how to make a horse play voluntarily though, without treats.


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:09 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
heppa wrote:
I only compared braces to the bit in that we are talking about metal in the mouth. THere are rubber bits also, so not very good comparasion in other ways.


I think the comparison does not faulther with the material but with the use.
A brace is to put your teeth in line.
A bit is to be controled... there is the sicnificant difference.

Quote:
I have been experimenting with bit vs bitless for years on different horses and have come to the conclusion with most of them that bits are not needed IF training is correct for both horse and rider.

Would a bit then be neccesary with training that is not correct?

Quote:
ANd there is no excuse for me not to do my best to train correctly, sometimes just lack of understanding and time. THe physical part of riding and proper hands just takes practice.
But then there is the question of a occasional bolting horse. I have Canadians who have incredible strong necks and the young ones sometimes spook and bolt (like once when about 4 deer jumped out of the woods in front of the horse)I have not been able or willing (!) to experiment which would work better in a spook/spin like that. Or how to get the horse not to react at all in that situation.

You touched a major part of the core of AND here.
You see, we do not do anything we are not sure the horse would possible object to.
So, we take years to do something and sometimes we do not do it at all if it can not be done in complete trust and understanding.
Safety here is important to as is the say of the horse at all times.


Quote:
I do have a very physically strong youngster (5 yo)right now who was a stallion until a year ago and while the bitless is fine in the riding ring, he can easily ignore it when excited. I have done a lot of ground training with him , all in the bitless including ground driving but he can spin around on the trail and bolt when scared and there is nothing I can do from behind other than let go.

Then why trail him of it is not safe? Afteral he is just baby-of. 5 years is very young still.

Quote:
He would stop and come right back to me when he was younger and before he bred the mare, and now he just runs to her and their colt if he gets scared. Very normal herd behaviour, he wants to be there to protect his family.
I know I am doing something wrong here , but I have nobody to turn for help here in this kind of training. (maybe this should be in another thread)

Ther is no quick fix for this situation. You and your stallion simply need more time. Every time the stallion follows you on trail and it goes wrong in some way, you, to him, have 'made a bad choice as a leader'. And it becomes clearer to him who is actually in coltrol...

Quote:
I do not use any treats for training,

Why not?

Quote:
I don't understand how to make a horse play voluntarily though, without treats.


by making sure the play is fun!
And taking baby steps towards situations where fun can turn into panick for instance.

This sort of thing, especially with a stallion take years and years, with out without treats.
But treats can help though.
I find that eating means to a horse 'all is well' and chewing relaxes them.

Kind regards,

Josepha
ps: the thread could be your training diary for instance :)

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:30 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:20 am
Posts: 6250
Location: Dresden, Germany
Josepha wrote:
You see, we do not do anything we are not sure the horse would possible object to.
So, we take years to do something and sometimes we do not do it at all if it can not be done in complete trust and understanding.


I think that this is a really important point. For quite some years I thought that it was not possible for me always to ride without anything at Titum´s head, because there are situations when I would need a halter. Like riding out with a friend who simply canters away with her (pretty wild) horse without telling me before or asking me if it is okay for Titum and me in a particular situation.

In such a situation it can be that I would need a halter to control Titum (or I would have to get down and lead him...).

Although I have been with horses for many years, I had not figured it out until this year, that it is just the other way around.

Not "I have to use a halter when I am in such a situation" but "As long as I would need a halter, I can not be in such a situation."

So now (if I ride at all) I only ride out with people I can count on and where I am sure that they would ask me if it´s okay before they canter away...


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:06 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 8:18 pm
Posts: 4941
Location: Alberta
Quote:
You see, we do not do anything we are not sure the horse would possible object to.
So, we take years to do something and sometimes we do not do it at all if it can not be done in complete trust and understanding.


This is such a good quote that I am quoting it too!

I can easily compare the traditional training I did with Cisco when he was young to what I am doing with Tamrack. As I told someone else, my previous "ground training" consisted of "sack 'em out, tire 'em out, then get on and go". Nearly everything except leading, tying and getting feet done was taught from their back and it was not done politely. It was demanding. Really, I was always in a hurry, and not very good at what I was doing. I was lucky to have horses that could easily be dominated when I was young, because I never got seriously hurt.

But Cisco....oh, my dear Cisco...he put up with it to a point, then one day he not so gently sat me down (very painfully) and basically yelled at me that he was NOT all the other horses I had ever had in my life. He changed everything. He started my journey. He continues my journey.

It was Cisco that taught me the importance of that precious combination of patience, relationship, and preparation. As Romy has said so succinctly, if it isn't safe to do, I simply don't do it (yet), because it is blatantly obvious that the horse and I aren't prepared properly to do it. Period. So we find ways to prepare.

I want to say, that I LOVE Canadians. I have not met one, only looked at photos, but from what others tell me that DO have them, I undertand that they are not very calm (and may be quite spooky) as other draft types may be - that they are very opinionated - and they like things to be "just so". If you can work within their comfort zone, you can gradually stretch and mold that comfort zone to encompass the universe...but if you get into a battle with them, you will always battle with them, and chances are, they will win. They are a strong and indomitable breed. Such a creature, once made a friend that will trust you though...wow, can you imagine having a true friendship with such a horse?

I admit, I chose an easier horse for myself. Not Cisco...he might as well be a Canadian (except that he spooks short, he doesn't tend to bolt)...but Tamarack...my big baby...he is half Andalusian, no prior baggage of mishandling by humans, and he is as people oriented, amenable, curious, and energetic as a Border Collie - and just as sure of himself...in fact, I tell people he is registered half Andalusian, and half Border Collie :wink: .

He and I will do our first ride only with a cordeo or with nothing at all, and I hope to have a video camera there to record it. I don't expect it to be perfect, because as well as we can prepare movments and cues and responses to each other on the ground, he will have my weight on him to deal with for the first time and his balance will suddenly feel very different. I am no lightweight, let me tell you, so it will be a big change for him.

If you would like more feedback on clicker/treat training, and possibly from other people with Canadians (so it would be more directly relevant to you), then check out http://www.clickryder.com there you will find a link to the clickryder email list. It is a great list. I am certain there are folks on there with Canadians. Just sign on, send a message and ask to hear from "Canadian" people who clicker train.

I would think, that if you got into it and really enjoyed it, then with at least one of your horses, you will be trail riding with a true partner sooner than you think. A beautiful breed, Canadians!


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:57 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:20 am
Posts: 6250
Location: Dresden, Germany
What a wonderful post, Karen. Thank you so much. :D :D


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:31 pm
Posts: 58
Location: maryland
wow, thank you for all the posts here. I will start a separate diary for my Ex stallion...

But as for the initial topic , bitless bridle ,( I do use it now 100% riding and in- hand work) I still don't understand after 7 years of using it why it is so much better because when I switched back and forth the Canadians anyway did't seem to care one way or the other. They will show their dislike very clearly, like when the saddle does not fit etc.. They do care like Karen says what you ask of them, not so much how you ask it.
(Thanks Karen for your insight on Canadians, I have never been to Canada to see them and don't know waht people usually say about them. What you said is surprising but so correct!)
Then on the other hand I have seen many horses manhandled by the bits so I can see the damage done by the metal int he mouth part. But I am not done with my opinion here, it sure can be changed. I am the kind of person who wants to see things for herself thought, so my opinions usually come from my experience. I don't go along with everything Dr Cook says about this bridle because it just does not go along with waht I see with my eyes and feel with my body. Don't take me wrong here, like I said, I use it now 100% of the time!

Back to why I go on trails when it might not be safe. I have ground driven my stallion around the neighborhood since he was a baby and it was totally safe then. Of course it was a surpsise to me to when things changed after the colt was born and it took me a while to figure it out. I still do not ride him on trails, my husband does sometimes.

THe idea of AND is beautiful. But it will not suit most people in the horse world. People are not willing or able to take time to develope such a relationship with their horses that they can ride them around without any physical connection to their heads. They want to get on their horses and ride. THey want to get away from their work life, daily cares, etc wahtever the reason is and they want to ride and compete in doing so. THat is human nature.
To spend years on ground work is out of question for most people.

Myself as an example. Riding is physical theraphy for my fibromyalgia and arthritis. I have raised 5 children so time has been very limited. THings are changing now , my youngest is in school and I will have more time. But is it selfish for me to spend so much time on my horses when there are so many needy people around me, suffering from illnesses, depression, etc etc? Should I not be spending time tending to my organic garden to help feed the sick and the poor people and just use my horse for my theraphy so I can go on and do my job?

I thinkg I have to find the answer somewhere in between.

This is where I struggle with AND. Of course , reading about it (I have about 100 books in my horse library, from Hempfling to Podhajsky) makes me want to have that kind of relationship with my horses. I have 5 of them, only need 3 for family use but one is a rescue whose hooves I am trying to fix,( I also trim) one is a pony whose job is to run everyone around and just be a joy for us to watch. (


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:57 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
heppa wrote:
wow, thank you for all the posts here. I will start a separate diary for my Ex stallion...

Welcome and great! :)

Quote:
But as for the initial topic , bitless bridle ,( I do use it now 100% riding and in- hand work) I still don't understand after 7 years of using it why it is so much better because when I switched back and forth the Canadians anyway did't seem to care one way or the other.

You can conlude that you as a rider do not make the bit a huge issue.
Nevertheless, it can be uncomfortble and a risk sometimes, so why use it? That is our point :)

Quote:
I am the kind of person who wants to see things for herself thought, so my opinions usually come from my experience.

In that case, you fit absolutely well here, for that is what we are all about.
You can share experience and give tips and lessons, but at the and of the day, every human and horse is different and one has to find the way home on one's own. Signposts can be helpful sometimes though... but they do not always show you the most beautiful road to travel...

Quote:
I don't go along with everything Dr Cook says

It is a rare thing seeing a 100% eye to eye with anyone. I have never had that myself... There is always something you yourself have experienced differently, right?

Quote:
THe idea of AND is beautiful.

Thank you :)
It is not an idea though... it is a road to travel based on the laws of nature.

Quote:
But it will not suit most people in the horse world. People are not willing or able to take time to develope such a relationship with their horses that they can ride them around without any physical connection to their heads. They want to get on their horses and ride. THey want to get away from their work life, daily cares, etc wahtever the reason is and they want to ride and compete in doing so. THat is human nature.
To spend years on ground work is out of question for most people.

And it is everyone's free choice to do so, like it is our choice to live a long AND principles :)

Quote:
Myself as an example. Riding is physical theraphy for my fibromyalgia and arthritis. I have raised 5 children so time has been very limited. THings are changing now , my youngest is in school and I will have more time. But is it selfish for me to spend so much time on my horses when there are so many needy people around me, suffering from illnesses, depression, etc etc? Should I not be spending time tending to my organic garden to help feed the sick and the poor people and just use my horse for my theraphy so I can go on and do my job?

No one can answer this of course but yourself.

I have only 3 pieces advice to people who have questions about their horses, other trainers or whatever.
And they are a set of rules that work so wonderful for me:

1. Always stay true to your own feeling. If it feels right to you, do it. If not, don't do it. Check if you can look at yourself in the mirror from time to time. If you can, you are on the right path, true to yourself and your surroundings.

2. If something does not work the third time, it is not going to work the fourth.
My grandfather always said: 'only an idiot keeps repeating the same action, expecting a different result the next time.
This is my standard answer when people complain about there trainer and want me to speak against he or she, which I never do.

3. If you have to do something you do not like to do, or do not want to do, then ask yourself: do you really have to do it?
We need to eat, have home and shelter, take care of our kids and animals... we have to work for money etc. All these basic things we have to do for basic needs to survive.
All the rest you do not have to do.
Especially with horses, they are for fun, they cost a lot of money and they should therefore make life more fun.
If you find yourself doing things with horses (because someone tells you too, or you think this is the way it should be) and you do not like it, it does not make you happy... ask yourself: Then why do it? no one can make you do it :)
Mucking out: yes
Riding a horse that scares you on a spot that scared the horse: you do not have too

:)


Quote:
I thinkg I have to find the answer somewhere in between.

I think you shall find them within yourself.

Quote:
This is where I struggle with AND.

Then we have somehow given you the wrong impression about AND, I am afraid.
AND is not meant to struggle with.
It is meant for everyone to take from it what they can use, what they like and what they need.
Even more so; it shall be different for every individual.
We do not expect people to do what we do. On the contrary.
We only share our experience so other's can benefit from it if they choose so.

Quote:
Of course , reading about it (I have about 100 books in my horse library, from Hempfling to Podhajsky) makes me want to have that kind of relationship with my horses. I have 5 of them, only need 3 for family use but one is a rescue whose hooves I am trying to fix,( I also trim) one is a pony whose job is to run everyone around and just be a joy for us to watch. (

Wanting a relationship like that is the start and the work is half way done :)
Sounds to me you are more then half way there :)

It is for everyone a never ending work in progress and it starts all over with every new horse we meet.

Not so different really from every in deep relationship, whatever specie, including our own.

Very nice to have you here!

Warm regards,

Josepha

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Last edited by Josepha on Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:03 pm 
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 8:18 pm
Posts: 4941
Location: Alberta
Riding can still take place. I have spent the last year with Cisco learning ground skills (and I'm still learning). During that time, I have still ridden. Although I don't suffer from any diagnosed pain condition (I am so sorry about your fibromialgia...I'll bet the diagnosis ALONE was a struggle to get), but I know that when I am on a horse, nothing hurts. Not my back, not my "female toubles" :D , not even the place on my knee where Cisco kicked me just over almost two weeks ago. Pain melts away when I'm on a horse, and sometimes, just in the presence of a horse. It's like some kind of wonderful alternate universe.

So don't discount the opportunity to learn here. There should be no struggle. Do what you are comfortable with, learn, and more will happen when you are ready for it to happen.

If you read through some of the diaries, you will find that many approach the AND philosophy in a wide variety of ways..from all or nothing, to dabbling and learning gradually. Some still use bits. The idea is that hopefully you are comfortable enough and supported enough that you try a few things from here, and who knows what may come of it?


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:23 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
Posts: 1852
Location: Taiwan, via NZ
Quote:
THe idea of AND is beautiful. But it will not suit most people in the horse world. People are not willing or able to take time to develope such a relationship with their horses that they can ride them around without any physical connection to their heads. They want to get on their horses and ride. THey want to get away from their work life, daily cares, etc wahtever the reason is and they want to ride and compete in doing so. THat is human nature.
To spend years on ground work is out of question for most people.


Of course you are right! Nothing is for everyone. But if you believe in something, standing apart from the crowd is not a reason to decide not to do it. :) I don't think AND was created with the ambition of drawing all people to participate. It was created to support people who CHOSE to follow this path.

There is always a positive spinoff.. even if the masses don't join in and all toss away their bits or begin to use methods of positive reinforcement. By living what we believe, we represent one point on the continuum, and people who are in other places on this continuum (deep commitment to horse sport... owning working horses... having ponies for the kids to gallop around on... choosing to use a bit to control a rowdy exstallion on trail rides :D ) are able to observe, think, gather ideas, form their own opinions, experiment, and perhaps make movement along that continuum towards a better deal for their horses, as they are ready willing and able to. This is all good.

As I understand, these people are all welcome to come look over our shoulders and take what they can find is useful to themselves. But they are not the focus of AND, so there is no need to adjust our concept to try to make it more palatable to them. Green eggs and ham? I do not LIKE THEM Sam I am!


Time.. well, yes.. it does take a lot of time to follow this path. This time commitment becomes worthwhile when it is the journey itself that gives the pleasure, not the destination at the end that must be hurried towards to gain our reward.

I think it doesn't really matter whether you have four hours every day to be with your horse, or half an hour a few times a week. (Provided your horse's needs for exercise are being naturally met.) What is important is your goal. If your goal is simply to enjoy being with your horse, practising together, developing your relationship and communication, then it doesn't matter how long it will take for your horse to be ready for bridleless trail rides, or whatever. The practicing is a joy that just gets better and better day by day. But if your goal is trail rides and the training is a chore... hmm.. yeah.. then you have to make the decision whether the time commitment is worthwhile, or even possible.

Re the bit or BB.
I am surprised to hear that you've found your Canadians show no preference between the two. Did you use BB and bit on and off during that time, or did you give them time completely away from the bit?I can only conclude that you must be very good and gentle with your hands. :) Every horse I've met who's changed from a bit to un-bitted has shown their immediate objection when bitted up again after some time out of bit, even if they never appeared to object to the bit before. It seems to me that the horse can be trained that it doesn't have choice, and it may then accept something it really doesn't like. But once they find out that they do have a choice, and that choice is listened to, they are quite obvious in showing their objection.

Personally I don't use the BB's very much. Some of our horses work okay in them, but some really show their objection to BB's too... Fussy critters once they know their rights! Give em an inch and they're worse than the kids.. :lol:
It seems they find them quite restrictive. Our horses who go best in the BB are the ones who are used to full bridles..tie downs.. lots of restriction.. so I guess the BB seems like freedom. But to those who have grown up with tonnes of freedom, the BB seems to feel like an insult and they fuss. That's just my personal and highly subjective take on it. :D

Mostly what I use now is a straight sidepull. I'm beginning my riding outside on my young horse with a sidepull and cordeo together. And that works fine 99 percent of the time.. the other 1%? I read my horse, I enjoy walking and jogging, and I'm pretty adept at jumping off in a hurry. So when the situation calls for it, I just walk with her. And she loves that.
IME.. walking together has created an amazing bond. When she spooks, she spooks TO me. So, the style of restraint used becomes pretty irrelevant. This hasn't really taken a long time, just very consistent use of positive reinforcement, and avoidance of negative reinforcement methods of training.

Would love to see a picture of your horses. I've never seen a Canadian and now I'm quite intrigued..

Cheers,
SUe

[/b]


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:49 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
Posts: 1852
Location: Taiwan, via NZ
Quote:
In that case, you fit absolutely well here, for that is what we are all about.
You can share experience and give tips and lessons, but at the and of the day, every human and horse is different and one has to find the way home on one's own. Signposts can be helpful sometimes though... but they do not always show you the most beautiful road to travel...


Lovely lovely post Josepha!
Beautiful words to express beautiful feelings. :D
I really liked your four points of advice to live by.
:D
Sue


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:22 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
why thank you :oops:

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


Top
   
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:05 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:31 pm
Posts: 58
Location: maryland
Nice to read all the posts here, and too much for me to respond to each. It is so nice for this group to be open minded and have open doors! I like the way you people think here. I am so glad I don't have to stuggle, I can just consider my options.

I had to put my most trained Canadian(7 yo) down last May , he had colic due to inguinal hernia, had already been operated once before, so there was no other choice.
I could often ride him with a mere thought,but usually just by using my core muscles and gentle nudges of the legs. I used th BB bridle with him and he responded to gentle vibrations of the fingers. Tried the bit every once in a while, and he responded just the same.
But there was a type of situation when he TOTALLY ignored me and that was when he had to poop! He had to stop for that and there were no negotiations about it! It used to irritate me that he did not respond to me and keep walking while doing his business, but now I am thinking that was just part of the deal. A horse has a right to poop in peace!
And when the deer jumped out (we have a lot of them) he spooked and also totally ignored me for a few seconds. This did not happen often and there was no way for anybody, horse or human to anticipate it.

I bought a combo BB and sidepull , and after looking at both options, could not even bring myself to try the sidepull on any of the horses, the crossunder bitless was so clearly the more gentle option. But there are different kinds of BB's and sidepulls, so I can't make a universal conclusion about that.

I have objected to tricker training because I like to use as little equipment as possible, carrying clickers, treats and targets just seems too cumbersome. I do occasionally use fresh grass from the ground for praise. THe Canadians are very food oriented, though, and clever about it too.
(it is a old historic breed bred by the french Canadians, worth looking up on the net)


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page Previous 1 2 3 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited Color scheme created with Colorize It.