The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:14 pm
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Hi everybody :smile: ,

I am reading her for a few days now and I am really fascinated. Very very interesting and I like the AND philosophy. But as my english is not the best I will probably more read than write. I came here through another forum where Romy wrote about the encouraging politeness. I liked that a lot and so I came here to learn more about it and to add it to my toolbox ;) .

I have my mare for 3 1/2 years now, my first own horse. She is spanish (PRE), 7 years old and has a lot of pepper. I am living here in a very traditional environment concerning horse education and so I am quite alone with my ideas of how I want things going with my mare and me. And all what I do is learning by doing as I don`t really have very much experience in training horses. And as I have no help or teacher I do it all by myself and Amapola, my horse, shows me how that works for us.

Concerning riding for example, there is no riding :green: . When she was 5 years old I showed her what that means, my weight on her back, and it seemed to be okay for her. So for maybe 1 to 2 times a week for maybe 10 min I got on her back to get her used to the idea that riding is fun. But last year I stopped that. There was one moment where she showed me that she was annoyed by that and since then I didn`t get on her back again. This for two reasons: one is my feeling of fear. As I have no chance to force here to anything (not bits for example) I need her "Yes" and without this there can´t be any riding. The other reason sounds probably a bit strange, but I think neither me nor her is mature for riding as we are both not straight yet. Is that understandable? I mean my english.
I have a real focus on this straightening thing, I don`t know why. It started a few years before I got her. Anyways I am "working" a lot on my straightness and of course on her`s too and apparently it takes a long of time to get really straight. What is funny is that our asymmetry is identic. So if I was I horse I would look like her and if she was a human being she would like like me. The good thing is that I can`t only see her asymmetry but feel it within my body too as it it the same for me ;) .
So today riding has become something special for me. It`s difficult to explain in english but it`s almost kind of "holy", something that will hopefully crown our relationship one day. Until then there are lots of things that we can to on the ground. The new thing is encouraging politness :smile:. She adores that. Too bad that she doesn`t like the "chase the tiger"-game . I tried that out a few times now but the look in here eyes says everything........... :green: . When she touches the bag with her nose it seems that the she really only does it to do me a favour and to show me the she understood what I want but she has no fun with it. Maybe because she is not scarred by bags or other things that I bring to her. The challenge is missing for her. But maybe I can find some ideas here how to motivate her because for fun and straightening this seems to be a pretty cool game.

So, enough for know.

Tanuschka


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:51 pm 
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Location: Vienna, Austria
Welcome Tanuschka! :f:

I recognise myself in so many things you wrote :). My horse is 6 years now and I have him for 3 years. I am also very slow and careful with starting to ride. And building straightness is also a very important topic in our training. Not that my horse is very crooked, but I want to prepare him the best I can if I am going to ride him. So far it is going well and he even has fun with riding right now.
But I think I know what you mean by "holy" - I always regarded riding my horse as a huge privilege and something very intimate. On the other hand I also sense a strong feeling of pride in Mucki, when he carries me and he seems to enjoy the challenge and the possibilities of being strong and swift together. It's definitely a very interesting phase of our relationship...

I hope you will share a lot of your experiences here - I will read them with interest...

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Welcome, Tanuschka! :)

Sounds so great how you are learning from Ampola and doing things at a tempo that works for you two. Also very nice to read that she likes the body language work. Besides being a very fun thing to do, I think it also makes the interaction with a horse so much nicer, because suddenly communicating becomes so easy.

Oh, and my horses aren't that fond of playing with the tiger either. :smile:

Best wishes,
Romy


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:58 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:14 pm
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What a friendly welcome :smile: ! Thanks!

Concerning riding it is really a process I went through the last years. It used to be the most normal thing in the world for me. One day I started to have an unpleasant feeling by putting bits in the mouth of a horse and since then this feeling never left. Then I started to have the same unpleasant feeling by going to a normal riding lesson on a strange horse and since then this feeling never left. Then I got my mare and now riding became very special. It`s a bit like a decision for one being (as a wedding ;) ) and now I am not interested in riding other horses anymore at all. It´s to intimate ;) .
And I am not sure if I will ever get back again on her back. Really, no idea. Can be that I stay on the ground for the rest of my life dreaming of flying with/on Amapola :green: .

Concerning the body language work this similarity between Amapola and me fascinates me again and again. Myself I am really fascinated and interested in everything that has to do with body awareness and apparently Amapola it`s the same. Whenever we do our typical "body awareness exercises" she gets this special sparkling in her eyes and the encouraging politeness is the absolute top for her.
I find it astonishing that these sensitive beings have so little awareness in theirs bodys, especially in the backside. Developping this seems to have a influence on their state of mind and for human beings it`s the same. So we both develop together and see what will come out of it one day :smile: .

Tanuschka


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:38 am 
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Tanuschka wrote:
One day I started to have an unpleasant feeling by putting bits in the mouth of a horse and since then this feeling never left.
That's so interesting - I heard so many similar stories before. What was it exactly that made you change your mind so completely? Do you remember?
For me it clearly was having a horse of my own. That changed everything. And even more so, because he was totally raw and I had to teach us both how to communicate with each other. Before that I went riding with bits and all. Not that I liked very much to have to pull on the reins, but I didn't know any better.

Tanuschka wrote:
Whenever we do our typical "body awareness exercises" she gets this special sparkling in her eyes and the encouraging politeness is the absolute top for her.
Yeah, I remember that as well. It was so enlightening. I think it's that special moment where both horse and human really discover that there they can find a common language. I don't think of it as "politeness" anymore - it's effective (and polite) communication. A mutual understanding which forms the basement to build all the other exercises upon - all the way to haute école.

Tanuschka wrote:
I find it astonishing that these sensitive beings have so little awareness in theirs bodys, especially in the backside.
Mmmh. I believe it has to do with the domestic living conditions in our part of the world, which does not supply the horses with the terrain they would need to develop a better body awareness. There are differences between horses who have lived most of their youth in a box and those who had the luck to move freely in a family herd on a huge terrain. You cannot learn to move accordingly from doing lessons in the arena alone I'm afraid.

I too like exercises for hindquarter awareness and also found that our horses love them very much :yes:. They seem to know that every bit of better movement is beneficial. Especially hindquarter awareness is something that does not come natural to them as they never need it in the wild. The hindlegs simply follow the frontlegs - there's no need for backing up or even small circles. But when they realise the potential of those exercises, they just don't want to stop - or at least that's the case with our two 8).

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Houyhnhnm wrote:
I don't think of it as "politeness" anymore - it's effective (and polite) communication. A mutual understanding which forms the basement to build all the other exercises upon


I totally agree. Actually it's just a coincidence that it got called "Encouraging politeness". This is because I wrote that sticky after having visited Josepha's friend Rosaria for the first time and done my usual body language thing with her horses, and also with her draft mare Zilke and her warmblood filly Maxana. Afterwards she told me that this had completely changed her interaction with those two, because they had been so pushy that she had been afraid to go into the stable to feed them. After she had learned to use her body language in that way, those problems were gone, and therefore when I wrote the sticky, I called it Encouraging politeness.

If I had not trained with those two but just with Josepha's and Rosaria's more careful horses, I would perhaps only have focused on the communication aspect of it, and not so much on its potential to make the interaction more safe. I have often wondered whether I should rename the sticky, but then I thought it also had its benefits. This is because many people who are searching for another way do so because they have a problem with their horses because they don't feel safe and don't know how to change that without pressure. Thus, although the current name might perhaps unnecessarily limit the function that this way of communicating can have, it may also make it extra clear that it's not just a funny game but can actually help to solve certain problems. :smile:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:57 am 

Joined: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:14 pm
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Quote:
That's so interesting - I heard so many similar stories before. What was it exactly that made you change your mind so completely? Do you remember?
For me it clearly was having a horse of my own. That changed everything. And even more so, because he was totally raw and I had to teach us both how to communicate with each other. Before that I went riding with bits and all. Not that I liked very much to have to pull on the reins, but I didn't know any better.

That was not one thing that made my mind change. There were a few things and it was a longer process. I continued riding with bits for quite a while, even with my unpleasant feeling, not on my mare though (she doesn`t know bits). With my mare then I realised on a deeper level to what point we can force horses to do what we want in a more or less friendly way when we put metal in theirs mouthes. And it`s also in this time that I realised that it is not just a question of dominance but that bits give an illusion of control about the horse.The dominance/controll is an illusion. Bits in the mouth of my horse won`t make sure that I won`t have an accident. I dreamt once and I always kept that in mind: give up any control and you get total control. So I just follow this path :smile: .
Quote:
I too like exercises for hindquarter awareness and also found that our horses love them very much :yes:. They seem to know that every bit of better movement is beneficial. Especially hindquarter awareness is something that does not come natural to them as they never need it in the wild. The hindlegs simply follow the frontlegs - there's no need for backing up or even small circles. But when they realise the potential of those exercises, they just don't want to stop - or at least that's the case with our two 8).
Although horses had such hard lives beside us through all the centuries I believe today that they are kind of privileged animals compared to other domestic animals. As I already said I have a focus on (mind and-) body awareness and the horse is the only animal that can develop this awareness - together with a human friend. Horse and human can help each other to really stand up on "two legs" and get straight and strong, like a centaur :smile: .


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