The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:35 am 
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Karen wrote:
So many beautiful horses...I don't even know where to start. I love the land there too...the pond is lovely!

I'm glad you found your way here. I'm looking forward to hearing more!


thankyou. they are all beautiful inside and out. :love: i am very lucky here. it is a very beautiful country. we do have extream heat though, and i love that my horses have a dam to cool in. i see so many horses in small yards without even one tree, and i am brought to tears often. but it all does come at a cost, and we give up alot to have this, and we work very hard. but every seccond is worth it. :D :D :D

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just keep swimming, quote from nemo!:)
love jessy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:07 am 
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I was going to say that I loved the photos you have of one of the boys hanging on the fence...and again, sitting on the ground with a large screwdriver. I know parents that would flip if their kids did that.

When I was growing up it was different. Not saying it is/was right or wrong, but we had hunting knives when we were quite young...a bb gun when we were a bit older (I have one brother, two years older than I), and under supervision, we could shoot real guns if we could lift them. :D

...at targets, of course. We were also taught to use bows and arrows by my Mother, who was pretty darn good with both bow and gun. She competed in archery. I also had a pony when I was five. I was one very proud kid to have my very own pony. And he kept me humble, and he kept me on my backside often. His big trick was to wait until I was totally relaxed and enjoying the scenery, then he would skitter sideways and dump me on the ground. He would then run back home and I had to walk. Did I say I loved that pony? Well...I did! I thought everyone got dumped off of ponies. I didn't know any different.

It just brings back so many lovely memories, seeing your kids with the horses (big sigh, big smile!).

About the Spanish Stomp. I too went through that with my Tamarack. I didn't really worry about it, but knowing that a Spanish Walk should be silent, I knew it was correct. I was also a little worried it might be hard on his joints. So I asked for more forward movement, sacrificed the height (as you are experiencing) and recently, have gone back to asking for only one leg (more like a jambette, although we're a long way from that..but what I mean, is we're stationary) at a standstill. I thought that if I work on a Jambette, it might improve the quality of his Spanish Walk and reduce the stomping.

So I've spent numerous sessions working on the Jambette. I use a target and ask for one leg by touching the target to the leg I want, then I hold the target out for him to touch with his leg. At first he would touch the target with one leg, then offer the other leg. If he offers the leg that I didn't ask for, I withdraw the target immediately so he has nothing to target the leg to. I then repeat the touch to the leg I want, and hold out the target. He's rewarded quickly for offering the correct leg.

So in time, he realizes that I only want one leg. So then I want to work on duration. So he touches the target, but I withhold the click. So he he offers a second touch. What I get initially is just repeated touches (up, down, up, down) or waving in the air with one leg. I reward, but I keep an eye out for any sign of duration...any sign were he realizes that maybe just holding the leg out there would be easier than flailing or repeated lifts. Gradually, OH SO SLOWLY, we're getting some duration that one can actually notice. Still some waving, but I'm getting more fraction of a second durations that I can click for.

The cool thing is, that even though we have this sorry excuse for a jambette, it has already improved the quality of his SPanish Walk, where he has this minute pause when he lifts the leg, and for whatever reason, he's setting it down more carefully. So he is indeed giving me silent steps that I can click and reward for.

So I would suggest that you play with it and give it time. What seems to be lost (the height for instance) isn't really lost...it's still there somewhere and it will come back when the mind doesn't have to think about other things. Jambettes help with the physical ability for height, and so does putting the feet up alternately, on a pedestal that gets increasingly higher as the ability comes up.

It's just fun to play with...I do miss Tam's stomp just a little....but his new steps are looking so grown up!

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"Ride reverently, as if each step is the axis on which the earth revolves"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:20 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:38 am
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Location: Australia
Hi Jess,

My ponies have requested that I ask you if they can come live at your place. They said something about horsey heaven??? ;)

Welcome aboard,
Kim.

Ps. Will Pm you to discuss visiting rights with my 2 once they've moved in. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:43 am 
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thnkyou so much for that :kiss: . i will look up jambette (is this the spelling?) and then i will work with it. we have started just a little target practive. i do have a question though, do i ask the knee to touch the target, or do i ask the hoof? ;) i think that she will like this.

i do think that i will miss the stomp a little too, it is very cute, as i know it is her way of really showing me she is trying her hardest! :) can i teach this on one leg and then the other? or is it just for the one?

i know that in NHE it was told to me that i must wait till a true relationship developes without treats, but i have found that some of my horses have too strong a pain memory, and so i think that at first, i would be best to make it a rewarding experience. i do have some horses that respond well to just my voice, but for danni, she likes the gift for a job well done.

about the boys, i know. i have had mothers nearly fall over backwards watching my little ones. but i am always watching, i can normally get in there befor the accident happens. i think that it is the kids that are sheltered that end up having major accidents. they do not know ow to handle knives and things, so their curiosity makes them play when mummy is not looking. my kids know that they can experiment with me, and they dont have to hide things.

pluss really, they are having the life i grew up with. they know and handle snakes and spiders, they ar around all sorts of animals and they learn the dangers. i think that it is good for them to get into these situations :D Dylan scales fences so fast, that all i had done was stop to pick up a lead rope, and up he was. :D he loves his wheapons. he is obsessed with screwdrivers. so he has a really big one that he is alloud to have when he is with us. he likes to dig!!!and drum!!! :D :D

i am making sure that my boys grow up with the type of childhood that most kids only read about in peterpan books!! :yes: they are feral, but boy they are good at outside things. they can build their own hut, and they can catch large lizzards (which they must be kind to and let straight go) they can grow their own vegies and they can rn all day without tiring!! :sad: i wish they would get tired sometimes... ;) they just run rings around me. i want to adopt a little girl. there are so many little kids around here that have knowone to love them, babies are always finding homes, but little kids about 5yrs, seem to be left out. so i want to adopt, but i dont think i know how to look after girls! i never grew up like one.

you sound like you had a fun childhood. i was much the same. some of the ponies i had growing up......wow! i dont know how i made it through. we did not have much money, and so we had the "free to good home....needs confident rider" i had one little pony who would buck and spin till i came off (as we had no saddle) and then he would come after us with barred teeth......he had issues :twisted: !!! he ended up the sweetest pony! but you know what, having all these bad ponies made me learn to be inventive and learn to work out wha they were upset about and how to help. ;) i ended up with some of the best ponies around. i know it had a bit, but this is me when i was eight...
.Image
i was so desperate to look good as it was rare to have a camera to get photos, and he just wanted to eat the tree!!

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just keep swimming, quote from nemo!:)
love jessy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:45 am 
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Kim Garsia wrote:
Hi Jess,

My ponies have requested that I ask you if they can come live at your place. They said something about horsey heaven??? ;)

Welcome aboard,
Kim.

Ps. Will Pm you to discuss visiting rights with my 2 once they've moved in. :)


thanks, :D where abouts are you in Australia. i was on the nid north coast, but now in the hawkesbury. :D

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just keep swimming, quote from nemo!:)
love jessy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:49 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 331
Location: Australia
No smart comment please- near Canberra. Only about 4 hours away I think. Finally an AND member near me. YEAH! :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:57 am 
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Kim Garsia wrote:
No smart comment please- near Canberra. Only about 4 hours away I think. Finally an AND member near me. YEAH! :)


awww! you poor thing!!! i went down there a little while ago, the drought really hit you guys hard huh!! has it improved in the last five months? alot of people had to part with their horses down there because of it. i know, i moved from where i was after horse flu.... with the loss of income, having a baby, and the feed, i could not do it! so i am living in a one bedroom granny flat at my mums while i wait for my house to sell. aaaaaahhhhhh!!!! i miss home!!!

it is great being on a welcoming forum!!! this is a great place to learn..... i had so many dramas...because i disagreed with the treatment of people on the other one! but this is lovely place.

are you ever up this way? :D

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just keep swimming, quote from nemo!:)
love jessy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:11 am 
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so i want to adopt, but i dont think i know how to look after girls! i never grew up like one.


I grew up a tomboy...I think if you don't treat girls as fragile things, they can grow up so much stronger. But you know...I think kids tell us what they need probably better than horses even...so any little girl lucky enough to be your daughter will let you know if she prefers being a ballet dancer, a lizard wrestler, or a combination of both. :D

I'm a bit older than five, but you can adopt ME if you like!!!

I didn't explain things very well about the jambette...I'm sorry!

The Jambette is a single leg, lifted and held with duration (that sounds odd...the horse holds the leg up by itself :lol: ), done at a standstill. You train one leg, then the other. Usually you have to change sides on the horse, but in time you can ask for either leg from one side of the horse.

This is the most amazing jambette I've ever seen. The horse does passage, then stops and does a jambette.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs7UXTUX3YQ

In time you will learn that here, you don't have to apologize for using treats or not using treats, and you don't have to apologize for showing a picture of a horse with a bit...just show the picture. Everyone will just Ooooo and Awwwww and how beautiful that pony is!!!

Everyone here is on a journey of their own...at their own pace, in their own way. We don't want anyone to promote bits here, but nearly all of us have used them in the past. SO please, please, please don't feel that you have to explain it!

Your kindness is overwhelmingly apparent, and it's clear that you have a special place in the hearts of your horses. So what is there to apologize for? Nothing!!

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"Ride reverently, as if each step is the axis on which the earth revolves"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:34 am 
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thankyou. i was so uptight on the other forum because i could not be honest, and i cant cope with that. i think exactly that. everyone travels at their own pace. :D i find it sad that people are judged for what the have done, yet are not taught in a way that they can cope with. i am afraid that alot of peopple have given up their path on other forums because of their mistreatment. there are a few of us that were kicked off at the same time. i think the others will join here soon, but at the moment they will probably watch till they get their confidence back.

thankyou for your words. i do love my horses very much, and i know that i will get where i want to be with them soon enough :D i just have to be patient ;) which is hard sometimes. but i am glad that i can ask real questions and have them answered, and i am glad that i can share the good and the bad without punishment. it is a true breath of fresh air :D :D :D :D :D i am so relieved.

i looked at the link, thankyou. i like looking to learn as i sometimes find it dificult to get a comprehension of words. i grew up with learning disabilities. but i can learn from feel, sound and sight. :yes: so it is great to have so many links on this site to support and demonstrate. there was also a spanish walk on there that was amazing. so gentle and controlled. i will try to put on the link.......if i can work out how to do that...

i was also wondering how to post an avitar pic?

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just keep swimming, quote from nemo!:)
love jessy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:35 am 
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ha!! i think this will work...yay!! http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lpCvQBALBX0

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just keep swimming, quote from nemo!:)
love jessy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:50 am 
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Yes!!! Isn't that MAGICAL? Every step as beautiful and controlled as the last one. It's stunning.

My Tamarack and I started over three times now on the Spanish Walk. The first time was his glorious, happy stomp. Pretty high at times too!
The second was to get him walking forwward better, and at the beginning of that, we lost all elevation, almost entirely and I was rewarding for very tiny tries again. But he remembered his bigger steps and soon he was walking forward really well, but still stomping a bit. Then this thrid time, going for some duration, we have the softness beginning. I think, too, that the more they begin to develop the haunches, and can lean on them a bit as they walk forward, then they get better at lifting the front legs higher. The Spanish Walk is not really a collected movement, but I'm pretty convinced that it requires the horse to at least balance on the haunches more. It has the nice side effect of helping to both loosen and strengthen the shoulders...that is, it opens up the range that the shoulders can move, and builds the muscle there at the same time.

It really becomes a favorite of most horses...and something they will offer when asking for a cookie.

I started to train it from the front with my other horse, CIsco. Then I had to teach him later NOT to do it when I was in front of him. So with Tam, I only taught it from beside him, and then I felt much better about telling him he shouldn't do it if I was in front.

With a target...like a sponge ball stuck on a dressage whip or my favorite, a pool noodle, the horse has something really soft to hit. Tam will hit the pool noodle hard enough that it then bounces up and smacks him under the chin or in the nose...but he doesn't seem to mind!

I forgot to say, that you can teach the horse to target the knee OR the hoof. Tam started with the hoof (I first got him to paw at the noodle when it was on the ground, then I gradually changed to holding one end with the other end on the ground, and then eventually to holding it horizontally in front of him), but the way I hold it, he can really only hit it with his knees. I hold it in such a way that I can raise it up lightly to touch the underside of his neck as a second cue to keep his head up. A horse needs to stay upright to really raise the legs. If the put the head down (which some tend to do in the beginning anyway) they fall forward with each step. So teaching the head to come up may be another step you take later. The cordeo is good for this as it is supposed to cue the base of the neck to lift...and if the base lifts, the rest of the neck/head follows! :D

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:59 am 
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For your avatar, you need to shrink a photo to a specific size...if you go to your profile pages (user control panel at the top of each page?), and on the left, you will see an area called OPTIONS. Beneath that, click on PROFILE, then EDIT AVATAR. It will give you the dimensions (70 x 70 pixels).

If you need more help, here is a topic:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=138

And in it, Romy posted a link to a site that will shrink an photo for you. You enter the required dimensions and take it from there. I think! It's been so long since I created mine! I hope this helps some?

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"Ride reverently, as if each step is the axis on which the earth revolves"


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:04 am 
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:applause: :applause: :applause: yay!!! i am really excited with all this new info. i cant wait to get out there and have a go. i like the pool noodle, i have a few of them, they really are a great idea....my little one has an ear infection and has woken in a bad mood, do i will go. but i will post tonight on the results. but so far, i am just filling myself with info.....i feels so excited that i could just about explode.

talk soon....and thankyou! :D :D :D :D

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just keep swimming, quote from nemo!:)
love jessy


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:15 am 
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Hi Jess, and a welcome as large and welcoming as your herd!!!

:)

Horse heaven...oh, my, Kim was right! I'm not going to show these pix to my horses for fear of a rebellion...I'm stuck in a commercial facility in Southern California until we can figure out how to move back East to the farm I've been dreaming about since childhood...but one of these days...

Your pictures are exquisite -- what a world you all have carved for yourself and your human and equine family.

I'd love for you to start a diary -- in case I missed somebody else sharing the best spot to do this, the "Daily Training" thread is the spot of choice...

Come, share, enjoy -- this is the way of the many, not the way of the one, here. And I so empathize with your impending explosion possibility! :D When I first found my way here, I pretty much abandoned all of my other responsibilities for a month because I couldn't stop reading...it's a genuinely extraordinary group of people who deal with each other with the same kind of curiosity, kindness, respect, and affection as they do with their horses...

Glad you're here!! The group is already the richer for having you join us...

All the best,
Leigh

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:04 am 
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Hi Jess,

this sounds all so wonderful about your kids. And I am with Karen that a girl would be lucky to live with you. In my own childhood I also did all this boy stuff (building wood houses, climbing on trees, shooting with bows and arrows etc.) and there were several other girls around who also did (we were not only a family with three girls but also only had girls in our neighbourhood). We enjoyed all of it!

So glad that you are here. :)

Oh, and Kim, that´s nice, if you will live with Jess you won´t have to move all the way to Germany to live with us on our summer pastures after all. 8)

Warm Regards,
Romy


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