The Art of Natural Dressage

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 Post subject: greetings from the U.S.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:15 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:49 pm
Posts: 56
Location: U.S.
Hello everyone from the United States (Oklahoma) -

I found this forum after viewing some videos on YouTube that I came across when I was searching for liberty work. I've been spending the last few days reading through some of the forums and getting a feel for what you are all about. I try to be polite in joining new places and reviewing things before I jump in so that's why this intro has been delayed (not to be rude, hopefully to be considerate). :f:

At this time, I have three horses: a mini-Shetland pony named Pandora who is about 16 years old; a TB gelding, Tris, who is about 17 years old; and my new girl, Zz an Appaloosa X Arabian who turned two in August, 2008. Over the summer we moved to a stable run by a former riding student of mine so I am very happy to report that my horses are in a place that could only be better if it was my own.

They are turned out in two paddocks that total 4 acres, with two run in shelters and a special pony shelter. The pony will be going back to being drylotted once spring grass hits. Feed is primarily grass and hay, with some pelleted feed (a low starch/low sugar feed) as well as certain supplements. All my horses are kept barefoot and trimmed by principles set forth by Pete Ramey (though I don't know how many are familiar with him here).

Over the last 7 years I have dealt with a medical issue with my mare who passed away November 2007 due to laminitis, brought on by Cushings. This probably started my interest in things that weren't not considered the "norm" by those around me.

It increased my interest in Natural Horsemanship (for lack of a better word), and I've attended Centered Riding clinics as well as a TTeam clinic (Linda Tellington-Jones) and hope to attend a clicker clinic by Alexander Kurland next month. I've done Roundpen work but I am turning more and more towards work done by Carolyn Resnick, or at least the philosophy of interaction she follows.

I am starting some new projects with my pony - your Chase the Tiger game and also the trot to me and go away. Although I'm doing trot to me with a clicker and treats, I am going to be weaning her off from totally treating and going to other rewards (grooming etc...).

Tris and I will be working on his balance issue this spring and after reading through this forum and thinking it over, I believe we will trying a different approach this spring (no bit, more ground work).

Zz (my AppX) is still a baby and just learning things about humans. It will be exciting to bring her along in a completely new way. :cheers:

I have a blog here for those who might want to visit
http://horseideology.wordpress.com/

I also have some older videos here (though hope to update in the next month)
http://www.youtube.com/user/horseideology

My online photo album at Flickr is here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/horseideology/

Thank you for making such a wonderful and in-depth resource for those who march to a different drummer.

Here is one of my favorite pics - of Zz and Hubby :friends:
Image

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~ Becky ~ http://horseideology.wordpress.com/


Last edited by Pandora on Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 8:20 am
Posts: 6076
Location: Dresden, Germany
Welcome!! :)

Great that you have joined us. More AND Shetlandponies - YAY! :) Do you also train with Pandora or only with your big horses? If yes, what do you do with her?

I am looking forward to reading more about you and your horses. :smile:

Wam Regards,
Romy


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:26 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 331
Location: Australia
Welcome, very happy to have you here.

Hope you enjoy your time here. Will be very interested to hear about the Alexander Kurkland clinic if you end up making it along.

Best wishes,
Kim. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:12 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:49 pm
Posts: 56
Location: U.S.
Romy wrote:
Welcome!! :)
Do you also train with Pandora or only with your big horses? If yes, what do you do with her?


Thanks Romy for the welcome.

Pandora was used in my lesson program way back but she really doesn't like being ridden. She is a bit of a big pet ;) which probably makes her happy in one way but since she is soooo smart (smarter then my horses) she needs something to keep her brain active.

I've done some clicker training with her in the past to improve manners mostly, however, this last week I decided to try working her at liberty, reinforced with the clicker so we are doing come to me, trot away, doing a circle around me free lunging, attacking the tiger, following a target etc...

Her biggest issue is that she becomes very excited, and will buck in play, so I do not consider her really a "child's" pony during spirited play.

Here is a pic of my daughter grooming her last spring :) If you look close you can see what we call her Aardvark nose (ready to groom you)
Image

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~ Becky ~ http://horseideology.wordpress.com/


Last edited by Pandora on Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:16 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:49 pm
Posts: 56
Location: U.S.
Kim Garsia wrote:
Hope you enjoy your time here. Will be very interested to hear about the Alexander Kurkland clinic if you end up making it along.


Thank you Kim. Actually this is the first forum I've joined and participated in in about 5 years. I really withdrew a lot from the online horse community as I didn't feel it would offer free discussion about training topics that I wanted to learn about. This place has caught my attention though and I am sure I will learn much.

I should know by next week if I'm going or not; primarily it's just coordinating money and going with a friend. It's very reasonable; without a horse it will be $225 USD for 3 days.

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~ Becky ~ http://horseideology.wordpress.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:03 am
Posts: 1351
Location: Washington, Maine USA
Hello!!! Not sure if I missed your name??

Zz is beautiful!! Love to have another clicker trainer aboard!! Any photos of the pony??

And thanks so much for all the great comments on Lucy's video clips!! Look forward to seeing more of your videos too!

Brenda

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http://www.youtube.com/user/Lucy04574
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jack04574


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:36 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:38 am
Posts: 331
Location: Australia
Quote:
Actually this is the first forum I've joined and participated in in about 5 years. I really withdrew a lot from the online horse community as I didn't feel it would offer free discussion about training topics that I wanted to learn about. This place has caught my attention though and I am sure I will learn much.


Having been on the fringes of the horse world for a long time, it was so lovely for me to find this forum. Although I don't post too much, I visit lots. It makes the journey less lonely to know there are so many others traveling a similar road, and so inspiring.

K.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:12 am 
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
Posts: 1852
Location: Taiwan, via NZ
Hi Pandora's Human! Welcome! Nice pic of hubby and horse! Hmmmmwhich one is cuter?? :huh: :D Husbands that scritch itches are just the best aren't they!

:f: Sounds like we have lots of interests in common. I too have followed PR's method of hoof trimming with much success. :) And followed along most of the paths you mentioned coming here. Still very interested in what I can learn from Carolyn Resnick, and thinking about what parts of her knowledge and techniques can be adapted to fit in with the way I want to work with my horses now in the AND philosophy.

And I have two shetlands (not minis) along with an array of larger bodied horses ... you know which ones have the larger brains and wills alreadY! :D

Nice to meet you! Looking forward to sharing more!

Cheers,
SUe

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,
But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:49 pm
Posts: 56
Location: U.S.
Brenda wrote:
Hello!!! Not sure if I missed your name??

Zz is beautiful!! Love to have another clicker trainer aboard!! Any photos of the pony??

And thanks so much for all the great comments on Lucy's video clips!! Look forward to seeing more of your videos too!

Brenda


Hi Brenda -

It's Becky - I'll put it in my tagline when I get a chance.

Yes, I spent the day reading your journal today and trying to make time to look through your videos. I hope to make comments on your journal - but I usually like to read through everything first and think on it - not make quick assumptions or provide "advice."

I liked reading your thoughts and then seeing the videos as it helped me make sense as to where you were going with it. It also means I need to put my little gray cells to work as you give much food for thought.

That I think is the biggest stumbling block with CT work - making it have a practical application so people see that it is more then "tricks." JMO.

Here is another photo of pony. She is 39" and in the winter looks more Shetland. I slim her in the spring and summer as she is then drylotted.

Image

We did some training today and it was very funny. She did not want to stop and got mad (pawing her foot) to tell me we should do more. She is quite the card and has taught me far more then I have taught her. ;)

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~ Becky ~ http://horseideology.wordpress.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:50 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:49 pm
Posts: 56
Location: U.S.
Kim Garsia wrote:
Quote:
[color=#800000]
Having been on the fringes of the horse world for a long time, it was so lovely for me to find this forum. Although I don't post too much, I visit lots. It makes the journey less lonely to know there are so many others traveling a similar road, and so inspiring.

K.


Yes Kim I agree. When I started reading through this forum last week I was astonished at the good sense and kindness that was apparent throughout. It was humbling and awe inspiring to see such fellow horsepeople. I am hesitant yet to post anything on the other threads until I have a better grasp of what is going on and what all of you are up too. :D

Becky

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~ Becky ~ http://horseideology.wordpress.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:00 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:49 pm
Posts: 56
Location: U.S.
windhorsesue wrote:
Hi Pandora's Human! Welcome! Nice pic of hubby and horse! Hmmmmwhich one is cuter?? :huh: :D Husbands that scritch itches are just the best aren't they!

:f: Sounds like we have lots of interests in common. I too have followed PR's method of hoof trimming with much success. :) And followed along most of the paths you mentioned coming here. Still very interested in what I can learn from Carolyn Resnick, and thinking about what parts of her knowledge and techniques can be adapted to fit in with the way I want to work with my horses now in the AND philosophy.


Dear Sue -

Yes, I do appreciate hubby. He is not a horse person but has learned so much, like hubby's of wife-crazy horses must. He has been there as a rock when my mare (that passed away 11/07) was in the final stages of her illness.

I am playing with Pandora now - incorporating Carolyns' go-trot, come back body language with a reward of a clicker. I hope to be able to phase out the reward but she is very motivated by food. :green:

I am also sitting with my horses (Waterhole Ritual One) now and doing WHR2, saying hello. Each of my horses are very different. Zz is definitely a "baby" mind who likes to hang out with you all the time. Whereas my TB is more hesitant to bond because he thinks there will be work involved.

It's interesting that Carolyn likes the leading from behind only - whereas Hempfling starts with leading from the front. I think the opposites of this training is interesting just because it is opposite... if that makes sense.

Becky

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~ Becky ~ http://horseideology.wordpress.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:26 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
Posts: 1937
Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Hi Becky! Welcome !

Nice pictures of your family :yes:

Kind regards

Bianca

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:16 am 
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Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:52 am
Posts: 1852
Location: Taiwan, via NZ
Hi Becky,

Quote:
I am playing with Pandora now - incorporating Carolyns' go-trot, come back body language with a reward of a clicker. I hope to be able to phase out the reward but she is very motivated by food.


Hmm.. this is the particular ritual that I have trouble reconciling with AND.. I have used it, to EXCELLENT effect, dealing with horses that were new to me, as a way of beginning our relationship. Will be interested to see how you and Pandora go with it.

:f: What I think I"ve found long term is that without positive reinforcement of some kind to make the trotting away something that they are HAPPY t do, the level of pressure that I have to use on my "good" horses is way more than I want. My horses trust me, and DON"T run away. Then if I do do it.. (and I have experimented with it with all of my horses) I do get the heightened energy levels and nicer movement, particularly with the more nervous horses, but at the expense of the trust and the willingness to make offerings of their own to our relationship. So when I do use it, with most of mine, I tend to "teach" it, rather than use my "electrical energy" to get them to go away,.. so reinforce them for one step away. .. then two steps.. etc.. But then they don't have that oomph! :roll: So I"m back where I started, trying to get the oomph from playing wiht me, chasing, and running TOO me instead.. It's a bit of a generalisation.. all my horses are a bit different, but that's kind of how I feel about it now.

:f: Do you have her new Waterholes DVD? I love what she says on there about WANTING a horse to be a pet, and balancing a young horse by bringing him up to be more dominant when he's too shy, and down to more submissive when he's too pushy. I've been playing around with this idea lately with some of mine. Interesting!

I think that creating better balance, and the ability to change the balance, is making a few of them much more a pleasure to work with. But the only WHR's the work with my BEST horse who I spend the most time with training, are the ones that DON"T demand anything of her. :D

:f: Pony is just gorgeous!! She looks much bigger than 38"! Wish mine looked that slim and sleek!

Cheers,
SUe

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:49 pm
Posts: 56
Location: U.S.
windhorsesue wrote:
Hmm.. this is the particular ritual that I have trouble reconciling with AND..


Hi Sue -

Pandora and Tris (TB) have both been traditionally trained. In pony's case she is so strong willed though that resistance "leaks" out at every turn. :twisted: So what I mean to write is that she knows how to lunge and this exercise seems similar to that (w/o the equipment).

Hmmm I'm just learning about AND so do not want to step on toes. I admire the work that everyone is doing.

I guess how I reconcile it with my own beliefs is that we work in a rectangular arena where she can leave at any time. And knowing her, she would definitely leave if I had overstepped the boundaries and she was ticked off. I think it comes to balance (see below) of what we both (horse and I) feel is okay and what is not, which would differ with each horse's personality.

I agree - I do like her talking about the balancing of the horses' personality and that they will all shift - rather like a teeter totter until both ends can manage each other's weight then they can be even. :applause:

I think there's a balance inside of ourselves that we must shift too - from perhaps being too over reactive and forceful to too passive and submissive. What do you think? :idea:

I like that Carolyn encourages as the very first ritual to spend a lot of non-constructive time with your horse. This is something people do not do. We are too rushed in our daily lives and our living a frantic pace. I think this slow approach will be what Carolyn will find hard to get people to accept - unfortunately. :sad:

I also like that Carolyn states that many methods can work at some time and others. Because I am tired of trainers who want to state their method is the only way and all other methods or paths are the work of the devil. :evil:

~ Becky
PS it's winter here now so Pandora is roly-poly with hair two inches long! above was a summer pic LOL

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~ Becky ~ http://horseideology.wordpress.com/


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:54 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:29 am
Posts: 1486
Location: Belgium
Hi Becky!

Welcome here.
Looks like we will be able to learn a lot from you.
I am very interested how you will change your reward from treats to grooming. I would like to do this too.
Gorgeous horses you have!
Regards

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