The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Miriam said:
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Even the king of these statements himself, Alexander Nevzorov, has quite to very uncollected moments in his videos when he is riding his horses. Just as that you should never lunge your horse uncollected. In one of his movies you will see him talking to the camera while Lipisina is being lunged in a very uncollected trot by Lydia. I think a horse will only more really collected for a maximum of 2-5 minutes on end and have frequent uncollected stretching down pauses in between – that’s also part of the process of learning to deal with the weight of a human, something that you can never prepare him totally for from the ground.

So if you ride your advanced horse naturally collected at liberty for five minutes, he will still have more and less collected moments. And if you ride a green horse in natural liberty, then he will probably shift between collected-uncollected every minute. And of course a piaffe is more collected than a collected trot. And if you can only ride a collected horse – does that mean that you can only ride collected exercises also? So where does that lead the extended trot, or the regular canter versus the collected canter?


You have a lot of good poins here, Miriam. I haven't seen the bit where Lydia is lungeing Lipisina, but I have seen the rather uncollected moments of Alexander's riding too. What I think is that one cannot ride 100% collected all the time - as you say, collection is a thing of fluctuation. I think that it would be good with a mix of riding upward and quite collected, and then letting the horse's head and neck drop and go in a low position which gives him the opportunity to relax his muscles and stretch while still carrying the rider's weight in a non-harming way. In addition to that, I kind of likes Alexander's "strict" rule of only riding a horse whenever an element can be made better through the riding. However, of course a moment of uncollected canter to stretch the legs and get some wind in your hair can't really hurt.. ;) As long as the horse is okay with it.

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A question back in return, because I’m always curious about how people have found our site: how did you find us? From your first post you seemed to have a somewhat negative idea about what this site would be – why did you feel like that, or how did you get that idea?

It’s not meant as criticism, I’m just really interested in how outsiders view our forum. The intriguing thing for me about our forum is that traditional NH trainers seem to think we’re total softies who have completely out of control, dominant horses because we don’t use pressure and corrections – while I got the idea that NHE’ers generally have the idea that over here we’re all controlfreaks who only go for results and not for a real relationship, simply because we publish the methods with how we train our horses on the site instead of keeping them secret. So what on earth are we??? 8)


Well, as I have mentioned (somewhere ;) ), after rereading my initial post, I kind of worried that it seemed a bit negative. That was not at all my intent! :green: Actually, I was invited by a good friend of mine, Isabelle Stüber. She is now an inactive member of the Academia because the Academia doesn't support the use of treats (not like she was banned of anything, it's always people's own choice not to participate). So she invited me over here, and I decided to check it out.

At first, I was kind of afraid that coming here would be kind of taking a step backwards, if you get me. Not because regarding to HE and all that, but when it came to "purity" of philosophy and focus and such. I remember reading a topic subtitle - "How we keep our horses affects our training" - or something similar. This had me thinking that it sounded like training first, horse second. Just little things like that that had me thinking. However, I think all these prejudices have mostly vanished.. ;) Your forum is great, and the philosophies are very similar to those in the Academia and NHE. (By the way - yes, I call people from the Academia Academians or Libertans (since it's called Academia Liberti). It's just because we really have no name, do we? People from NHE are NHE-ers and people from AND are (correct me if I'm wrong) AND-ers, and then there are the... Acamedia-ers?? Just didn't work. ;) )

Anne

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:33 am 
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Location: Belgium
Welcome

Tjee your pasture, your view!!
Waw!
Your horses: stunning!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:06 pm 
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Anne wrote:
people from AND are (correct me if I'm wrong) AND-ers

:green: Me for my part, I am just ANDrea :D
People on the NHE forum are discouraged to be members on other horse forums (at least in NHE-school). There is nothing more advanced then NHE, so no need to visit other forums. I would not know how that is handled at the "Academia". But already on the welcome page it says:
Quote:
Entering The Academia you are entering special place, you are entering the most advanced place in horse world.

Here we are free to be just ourselves and make up our own minds. Go out to the world and search for inspiration. :cheers:

On what collection is I would throw in a article by Dr. Deb. There are some pictures of her riding, which might be considered to be on uncollected horses by some. But I think, that is the kind of collection one should be aiming for when riding - it does appear to be very comfortable for horse and rider.

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Above, I am riding Painty in relaxed collection. He's raising the base of his neck, and you can see his abdominal muscles working as he coils his loins too.


http://www.equinestudies.org/true_colle ... 8_pdf1.pdf

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:37 pm 
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Welcome Anne,

I think all your questions are answered :)
I hope you and your horses enjoy your stay here.

It is good to know that there is an other forum like ours out there. Maybe in the future, all people will only regard horses as teachers and nothing else. I hope so, I think so.

What the riding is concerned, I think it can be harmfull very easy just like in any sport. Being an ex fitness instructor, I was thought to listen very carefully to ones body during every training.

Now for horses, carrying humans can be regarded best as an athletic activity and because it is as unnatural as tennis or ballet, is is vitale that the horse is able to listen to his body.
Therefore, we humans must at all times listen to the horse, when we are next to him, but even more so, when we sit on him.
Horses afterall know much more about dressage and their own bodies, then we ever could.

So for me in practise:
So if your horse does not want to ride today, then so be it. If he does not want to trot, then so be it.
And I know that one does not have to be afraid that they will not work after they know they can say no.
On the contrary :)
Also... work is feeling for horse and rider more in regard to 'painting or dancing'... an academic experiment to evolve oneself, like in the Rennaissance: http://www.artofnaturaldressage.com/philosophy.htm
Therefore we call it: the goal for Equus Universalis

This is the way we (my horses and I) train and this is how I teach my riding pupils.
It is not about obedience, it is about health and fun, it is about action-reaction I teach them.

thank you for reading,

Josepha

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
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Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Hi Anne,

Welcome! :green: Great pictures!

Anne wrote:
.... and people from AND are (correct me if I'm wrong) AND-ers,


Nope, I'm just Bianca 8) Because AND is no 'one way system' I think people here are individuals :alien:
AND members is a way to describe our members to my opnion :D


Kind regards

Bianca

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1983
Location: provincie Utrecht
hi welcome over here...join our frriendly place...
BUT you have one problem!!

:green: :green: you have to leave your house immediately.... :green: :green: i wanna live there.....
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

great place and great horse those littele one with your husband?? is cute


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:51 pm 
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Well, Inge, no need for me to move out! :D We live in a big farm house where half of the house is used for tourists and stands empty most of the year. We're even almost done with renovating it - so if you want to, you can start packing your things right away! :green: :rofl:

Quote:
great place and great horse those littele one with your husband?? is cute


No, not my husband - my mother's boyfriend, actually. :lol: :razz: ;)

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:51 pm 
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i would LOVE to come....but no holiday's yet... :sad:
next year we go to england first, (the southern part) so later on....


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:58 pm
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Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Hi Anne,
What's happening with Loce? I have missed you around?

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Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans. - John Lennon


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:34 pm 
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Inge,

We are planning on building new cottages here now, right by the sea side, so even more room. So if you want to take your holiday up north next time, just mail me.. ;)

Morgan :)

Yes, VERY little forum time for me lately. And it's strange, because I've actually got LOTS to report. :lol:

Lòce and me are doing just fine together. He's been really sweet and gentle (except when we went for a tiny walk with him and Kira one night. It was really badly planned and not the right time to do it at all. It was getting dark and a bit windy, so the horses were aggitaded, which I didn't exactly want for Lòce to be on his almost first real walk on a lead. But he's perfect on the lead when we're just in the pasture though. - Well, as perfect as his manners can get when he is so Lòceish!! :D)

Hoof trimming is also improving. I have changed approach slightly, so that I try pushing his boundaries a little tiny bit each time. Just hold his foot maybe a little bit longer than I usually would. Normally, he sees it's still okay and then next time, he can stand a bit longer. For real trimming, I do it when he lies down. And one day when I did this, he really tried lying flat out so I'd get more space to work. Unfortunately, that was hard for him, as Kira's box is WAY too little for her AND Lòce now that he's getting bigger. So it's a good thing they don't need to be inside much. But when I was done with one front, I got up and went out of the box, thinking that I wouldn't get any more done. But then Lòce got up too, turned around and lay down on the other side. So I finished the other front too. :D It was REALLY nice, because he just lay his head on my thigh and dozed off.... :lol: :inlove: :l:

However, I have in fact decided to sell him eventually. I don't think anything will happen in the next couple of months, but I have put up ads online. We do really need to sell some horses, and my further education will most likely take me abroad soon... And I wouldn't WANT to miss that either.. So it's a dilemma, but I'm trying to do the right decision, so that I do anything that I might regret in ten years.. But it's not easy.. :(

Anyways, I'll tell you guys more about it later. I have to hop on the bus home now..;)

Lots of love,
Anne

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