The Art of Natural Dressage

Hi guys. I am a few lead changes away from a being a L3 PNH grad.(young horse- we're getting there) I got interested in Nevzorov, but I find the forum a little hostile! I'm still active there, but I'm hoping this will be a friendlier less political place where I can learn positive reinforcment techniques to improve the relationship I already have with my horse.

I am hoping to be able to learn here without spending fifteen hours a day on the computer! (This seems to be a problem of mine!!!)

My personal horse is Asia- a Friesian/Saddlebred cross runt, and I have a few others I work with.

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Learning to put the relationship first.

Hi Danee!

We too hope to be a little more friendly and less hostile than the other forum and still reach the same goals that Alexander Nevzorov has set out. We believe that this is possible.

Is Asia the horse in your avatar? I'm really curious at a Frisian-Saddlebred cross as of course the Netherlands are the homeland of the Frisians and there are quite a few of them around. Saddlebred crosses however are quite rare over here.

Hi Danee!

Saw you on NHE. I have a friend that is also pretty much ready for level three testing, and she was very disallusioned with the NHE forum as she was only trying to ask questions to wrap her mind around the concepts, but was also treated as though she was trying to compare and/or promote Parelli. She is still in love with NHE, but now it is just between she and I on the phone, as she still wished to pursue her level 3.

Her horse, is, though, doing Spanish Walk now, and that was achieved with treats and love, and not through any pressure. I am like Miriam. I can see some good in Parelli. I have seen some terrible Parelli work from instructors. I watched a horse get beaten about the head until he figured out to push his hip toward the instructor. Her way of teaching a horse to side-pass toward her.

On the other hand, my friend that I talk to all the time is a gentle soul and her horse loves her to bits and will come running from anywhere to be with her when she goes out to the pasture.

I was one of those millions who got "stuck" on level one, and never went past that really. I couldn't afford the instruction kits and relied on what I could get from others. My horse (Cisco) wasn't sour about it, he did as he was told, but there was always some trust missing from our relationship. I can't say it was because of Parelli...I can say it was because I was all over the map and unclear in what I was doing.

NHE (and a trainer friend of mine) helped me to focus, and to become clear and my Cisco is very happy this has happened. We have achieved more in the last few months than in the last 7+ years he has been with me. He will never be like Alexander's horses - like free-flowing magma. Smooth and hot! But he and I have an affectionate relationship now where he is free to say no when he needs to, and he will give me 110% when he is capable of it.

I have also just bought a very happy 3 year old Andalusian cross (Tamarack) who really wants to play, to move, to learn. He and I will have quite an adventure, and then I know I can always come back to Cisco for a kiss on my cheek, hug his great head, and quietly scratch his itchy places. Cisco has helped shape the way I wish to do things, and he continues to be my teacher, paving the way for learning with Tamarack.

Hi Danee,
I also saw you already on the Nevzorov forum, however, I don't really see the dark side there, I think most people there are really nice, and I learn a lot of them.

However, in this forum it's easier for me to speak, I know people won't jusge me as fast as on the NHE forum

Very welcome here, I'm looking forward to see and hear more about you and your horse. Your avatar is small, but your horse looks like a beauty there!

Kind regards,
Els

Hi Danee,

Welcome! I'm sure you'll find some answers here and if not, we all have to try harder

Kind regards,

Bianca

Hi and welcome

I had to think hard what PNH 3 was ha ha ! But is is early and I am not so familiar with the Parelli dude.

I like your avatar
Is that the crossbreed?

@ Els:

That is the dark side...
And yes there are a lot of wonderful people on that forum.

Warm regards,

Josepha

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www.equusuniversalis.com

There are some wonderful people on NHE forum, but I think they are the same ones on this forum!!!!!

Yes my avatar is the cross. She is a runt. Her Dad was 16.3 and Mom 15.3. Asia is 14.1!!!! Good thing I'm short. I bought her as a yearling and I don't think she has grown an inch (in height anyway )


I have already gotten a ton of info from this forum, so get used to me- I'm here to stay!!!

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Learning to put the relationship first.

Hi dannee

I also remember you of NHE. If share your opinion of the site.
I think now I will do Parelli because I have seen much great things achieve by people who do parelli. I don't have so much experience in NH but I will never achieve things like natural collection if I don't have a basic. I hope parelli can give me this basic.

Greetings

PNH Definitly gives great basics, and a decent relationship- not the one you'll get here, but decent.

Level 1 is all about learning some basic techniques. It is a necessary evil. You do basic games for you to learn them- not really for your horse. In L2 you learn when, where and why to do them. If you buy a L1 pack, buy L2 at the same time to encourage you to get outa L1! In PNH you do eventually learn to listen to your horse's wants and needs, but it takes a while to get there, and if a person is all about the tasks, they may never get there.

I thikn if a person stays in touch with the ideas here while going through PNH they would have a lot.

I don't want to sound like I am saying forget AND and do PNH first, because I'm not- besides you can apply AND principles to PNH I think (mind you I havn't been here long). you can at least use PNH for some great ideas!

But on the NHE forum, I saw posts by a scared women trying to handle a 3 yo stallion that was out of control. This women did not have her horse's respect, and other people kept saying, "You were right to not punish him for biting you, but try to avoid his mouth, or redirect his energy." This women is going to get hurt.

Relationship is great, but if a person has no horse experience, safetly has to come first. I am by NO means saying you are in this situation. I'm just venting!

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Learning to put the relationship first.

But will the woman be safe when she punishes an young vibrant stallion while being scared of him a the same time? Having no experience with when how and why to punish?

This action (punishement by this woman) shall only make things worse and the situation more dangerous.

why should the stallion be punished?
What is he doing that is so wrong? why should he let himself be leaded by someone who is scared of him, who has no clue of what to do?
The advise was a great advise!

when punishing (and what is that? smacking him?) the stallion will only mirror your behaviour, as he is already doing.

My advise would be: take only small steps with the stallion. Do those things only with him where and when you feel safe and build from there.

Especcialy when you do not have anybody to help you with the stallion who is calm, and can mirror a horse to a safe and friendly way.

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www.equusuniversalis.com

Josepha, you are missing my point. I'm not saying she should smack him. I'm saying she has no business owning him!!! Or at least no business handling him without supervision of someone she trusts who has more experience.

There is also a difference between punishing a horse, and taking control of a situation. The ideal is that we never need to 'control' the horse, but for our safetly, the horse's saftey, and bystanders safety, we do sometimes have to control them. This doesn't have to be done through punishment. Even Alexander Nevzorov talks about 'discipline'. There has to be a limit somewhere.

I was walking through the pasture with my mare when our young gelding came running up, and seeing that she was with me and therefor probably wouldn't retaliate, bit her on the neck HARD. I took the tail of my rope and whacked him. I don't feel sorry about it either.

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Learning to put the relationship first.

I personaly agree with you Danee (and Pat Parelli ) 100% that you should always defend the horse with which you are working with against other people and horses who want to attack him. Otherwise there can't be any trust in you as teacher/defender.

And about the wild stallion problem... It's a tough question. You need to be really good, consequent and perceptive as a trainer in order to be able to calm down a unruly stallion. And that can happen through using corrections (even though they have a lot of drawbacks, especially with agressive stallions who will want to fight back), ignoring and/or rewarding the good behavior, but it's a demanding task on the human, whichever method you choose...

I guess a combination of the groundwork in this forum and Parelli as more visual learning aid through all the dvd's can be a good basis for further collection. So you could indeed find a Parelli Level 1 package and study that. However, in order to be able to fit that into a real good relationship, keep these four things in mind:

- Don't up the Parelli fases above fase 2 (touching the skin). If your horse still doesn't respond to that, just repeat the aid in the same fase, or on another place on his body in order to ask him to think about that bodypart untill he moves away from there.

- Use (food) rewards in order to counter the positive pressure system that Parelli uses (even when just going to fase 2)

- Try to teach your horse the Parelli Seven Games without a halter or leadrope. That way you really develop a communication based on mutual trust, instead of you being the dominant bully keeping your horse close while forcing him to do things he doesn't want to do.

- Only train the Parelli exercises when your horse has come to you voluntarily: So you're walking through the paddock and your horse approaches you and comes to stand next to you: then you can try one or two Parelli exercises, but before your horse gets bored, walk away yourself again in order to see if he follows you - and wants to learn more from you.

Miriam

I have the intentions to buy level 1 of parelli. It think it would be a good basic for us.

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I wish I knew your world

Hello Danee,
I understand what you mean it did irritated me as well.

Looking forward to reading more from you it was always interesting what you wrote.