The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:19 pm 
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Thanks so much! I too desire to do the Classical Dressage, not the modern dressage. I have read books by some of the great dressage people from 100 years ago. Can you recommend some books for me to read on this?

Thanks,

Ivy

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:30 pm 
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The information on books is scattered throughout the Research and training Methods section.

A lot of reading, I know. Or you can use the search function above to narrow the search (search the word "Book"). But the research section is all about where to find information from the traditional (modern or classical) world.

For instance, here we discussed a bit about Baucher:

http://www.artofnaturaldressage.com/vie ... php?t=1049

And in that thread is a link to a free pdf copy of the Art of Horsemanship.

I hope you enjoy being here. There is so much to read!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:16 pm 
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Wahay! I can contribute to this topic.

Now. Snudes has spontaneously found jamebette especially with her left front. I taught her leg lifts through mimicry which I didn't believe would work and then.... whatdaya know .... this has become her exercise of choice!

I have been trying to show her leg lift/jambette and step forward which she is getting. I saw a spanish walk step with the RF when we were free leading the other day. Her RF does not lift so high or dosen't get to be jambette yet - perhaps not least because she has multiple tendon injuries on her standing leg the LF - so we will see but there is a preliminary imbalance here.

By reading here then another 'way in' is to go from walk into a jambette - mmm... shall try this.

It is also heartening because her jambettes are her first real way of communicating her joy of trainng and I was fearful of developing a pattern I wouldn't be able to change but now I think I should just be continuing and developing the offer...... v kewl indeed!

We will keep you posted on our progress.

Oh by the way, we haven't done anything with pedestals at all as of yet. The jambette was her offering when I was learning how to free shape!!!!!

xx

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:18 pm 
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Karen,

Would you mind reposting your link. I put ../forum/ in the title bar but it still couldn't find it ... I would like to read this.

Thanks......

xx

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:11 am 
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Here it is!

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1049

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:28 am 
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Thankyou! :f:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Jo, are you standing on the left when she Jambettes with left leg? Maybe if you try more fromt he right she will 'discover' her right leg?? Maybe this isn't th case but I always teach spanish walk from the left first and they seem to always pick up good rhythm with the left leg and the right one comes later. Eventually I do it from both sides.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:22 pm 
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danee wrote:
Jo, are you standing on the left when she Jambettes with left leg? Maybe if you try more fromt he right she will 'discover' her right leg?? Maybe this isn't th case but I always teach spanish walk from the left first and they seem to always pick up good rhythm with the left leg and the right one comes later. Eventually I do it from both sides.


Oh, good point, Danee!

I started on each side with Circe, and as we moved into the very beginnings of the Spanish walk, I moved in front of her, facing her, so I could cue each leg from the front. She got this very quickly!

We're now working on trying to translate that back to me standing on one side and doing the walk...sometimes she gets this, but it's still spotty yet...

:smile:
Leigh

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:45 pm 
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Leigh, move to her side more gradually...see if she can understand if you stand just a little off center. Then a little more...only gradually moving back to her shoulder? More than anything it is a matter of perception, and that can be gradually shifted. "Gradually shifted" may only take one session, by the way! Especially since she's already starting to understand anyway. :yes:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Karen wrote:
Leigh, move to her side more gradually...see if she can understand if you stand just a little off center. Then a little more...only gradually moving back to her shoulder? More than anything it is a matter of perception, and that can be gradually shifted. "Gradually shifted" may only take one session, by the way! Especially since she's already starting to understand anyway. :yes:


Thanks, Karen!

We're playing with a variety of places/placements -- if I stand a little off center, still facing her, she's cool. If I turn around and face the same direction as she is, regardless of where I am in relation to her shoulder, this hasn't translated yet. :blonde: (I love these new emoticons!) :)

What we're really focusing on right now is getting her mimicry a little more specific -- so she's learning to lift up the same leg as I am. Right now it's leg, any leg! ;) And part of that is that she just loves leg lifts so much that she's jumping in to play without focusing a whole lot...ooooh, leg lifts!!!!! :D

I'm not generally physically cueing her by touching her to do this currently (I originally started to try this with using the target up over her back from the side to touch her opposite shoulder and that completely confused her -- we have a bunch more work to to with the target to expand its usefulness...some day!), and then I was so enchanted by what started to happen with mimicry that I've really been playing with that.

I just love what opens up with mimicry -- it still feels like magic to me, and feels like the least intrusive way of communicating -- and their energy is most open when we do this.

So mostly we're still exploring! I feel like we're at Mimicry 101 -- basic nouns and verbs.

But I have big fantasies of elegant long mimicry paragraphs with precise words...

(And then we'll have another world of cuing from her back, but we'll get there when we get there! I'm interested to see what we can come up with first, and what we will both have learned about being sensitive to how each other is moving by exploring this.)

Thanks for posting -- responding has actually clarified my goals with this for me in a new way!
:kiss:

Leigh

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:45 pm 
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Quote:
Jo, are you standing on the left when she Jambettes with left leg? Maybe if you try more fromt he right she will 'discover' her right leg?? Maybe this isn't th case but I always teach spanish walk from the left first and they seem to always pick up good rhythm with the left leg and the right one comes later. Eventually I do it from both sides.


Danee, thanks for your input. I am doing exactly this and I have good clarity with which leg she will pick up by moving myself left and right. In fact yesterday morning she gave a wonderful right leg jambette while I was lying on the ground with Karena, and it nearly landed on my head!!!! :yes: She will pick up the right leg readily but it tends to be in a leg flex position and not a leg outstretch position although there are some pointy toes sneaking in in places.

From what you are saying in sounds like you are just concentrating on one leg AND the walk at the same time which then translates over? Have I got that right???? I have started in halt with the leg lifts and jambettes and have tried to get her to flex/point and step, one and then the other, which she kind of does but is not understanding too well what I am asking.

Quote:
I started on each side with Circe, and as we moved into the very beginnings of the Spanish walk, I moved in front of her, facing her, so I could cue each leg from the front. She got this very quickly!


Leigh,
Its curious how different horses get things more and less quickly in different places. Snudes hasn't made this connection at all even though I have tried to do it for her to watch for some mimicry, have been in front and enticed her to leg lift and step forwards and leg lift and step forwards (although I did get 4 steps of this once and so didn't mark it clearly enough methinks) and I think I have confused her.

This evening, bless her a hundred times, we were walking back to the others so she was motivated to move forwards and I pointed for head flexion/ramener but what I got was an attempt at spanish walk ... wahay, double wahay... BUT she was doing a jambette and pawing the ground and trying to step forwards. So, oops, she is trying to do something much more difficult that I want,.... she is trying to walk and throw the leg forwards AND paw the ground and keep the walk.... blimey girl!!!!! So it got a bit messy and I didn't want to confuse things further so we went on to something else!!! But she is certainly trying very hard and I am trying very hard not to leave her too confused and frustrated because it really is my ineptitude not hers!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:56 pm 
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Quote:
Leigh,Its curious how different horses get things more and less quickly in different places.


Oh, truly, Jo! It's one of the things that I'm loving about having two horses to play with -- Circe got the mimicry thing immediately with the leg lifts, and is beginning to translate it quite enthusiastically to other things. Stardust got it eventually, and I actually think is more aware of what I'm doing with my body than Circe is, but he's slower to mimic me than she is.

He has more awareness, but is often carefully watching. Circe has all of the enthusiasm in the world, but often is singing songs in her head and forgets that anyone else is around! :D

It may simply be that you guys yet haven't found the magic pieces!

I hadn't really thought about focusing on one leg for the walk -- so it really is more the polka (LIFT STEP, step, LIFT STEP, step) -- I think that's another way that might work, too...I'm gonna play with that!

Quote:
But she is certainly trying very hard and I am trying very hard not to leave her too confused and frustrated because it really is my ineptitude not hers!!!!!!


Oh, I so understand feeling like you're the one who's inept! ;)

One of my tactics to avoid feeling like a bumbler and avoid pony frustration is that I've decided pretty much everything (at the moment at least) is an experiment and there are no wrong answers... 8) This has helped me with my Type A Dictator moments when I can get all framboozled about getting it RIGHT! and just figure that if they offer something different than what I asked for, we've just shifted games a bit. I try to keep this reasonably balanced so I'm not also confusing them by shifting gears every twelve seconds, and we're probably going to go for more specificity/clarity as we go, but it's been really good for all of us to remove frustration from the equation...

(This may or may not be helpful for you, because I don't get the sense that you're fighting with your inner dictator very much, Jo! ;) But I thought I'd mention it...for both of them at this moment, the most important part is that they have fun. I'm really not particularly goal oriented with them otherwise right now...again, this is a stage, I think..but it seems to be taking away a lot of all of our fear of getting it wrong, whatever "it' is...and it's letting me get more fluent in horse without inadvertently yelling at them because I said, "The dog is on top of the house" when I think I've said "would you lift your right leg please" -- I am a Peter Sellers movie... :blonde: :green: )

Hugs,
Leigh

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Quote:
and just figure that if they offer something different than what I asked for, we've just shifted games a bit. I try to keep this reasonably balanced so I'm not also confusing them by shifting gears every twelve seconds


Yep! We're playing this game too! I am too finding my way in talking horse and am very appreciative of their enthusiasm to try to help!! Noodle, though, believes that I know what I'm talking about and I don't want to let her down, that actually I've got no idea!!

I, like you, am seriously benefiting from working with 2 distinctly different beings. Karena is incredibly bright and thinks for herself about things, is very self centred (remarkably so) and is incredibly contrary to boot! She understands but might or might not. Whereas Noodle is falling over herself to do the right thing but she doesn't think outside of the box like Karena does. She wants me to tell her rather than try to experiment herself. I am sure this will change with time and its useful to think about how different they are. Of course I learn different things from both which I then get to apply on the other.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:04 am 
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I do start workingon forwards movemetn right away since I was always going for Spanish walk and have never worked on Jambette. I play with cueing each leg and with cueing just one leg while walking- whatever works. :green:

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 Post subject: Spanish walk cues?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:28 am 

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Location: Meadow Lake, Saskatchewan, Canada
Hi,
I wonder if you feel like sharing the cues you use for Spanish walk - verbal, physical etc.?


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