The Art of Natural Dressage

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:34 pm 
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Quote:
Me too!

I had the image from the Wallace and Gromitt episode "The Wrong Trousers!"



Leigh


??? I don't think I've seen that one... :green:

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Oh, it's one of my favorites (but I think my all time favorite is A Close Shave) -- but in this one, Wallace invents a pair of "techno trousers" -- robotic trouser legs that can take Gromit for a walk so he doesn't have to bother, and of course everything goes wrong, and of course Gromit saves the day...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrong_Trousers

:green:

Leigh

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:29 am 
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Location: Taiwan, via NZ
Leigh, we have similar tastes in hilarity! I have the whole collection here... but my favourite (although I do admit that A Close Shave is pretty hard to beat) is A Grand Day Out. What wouldn't we do for a piece of Wensleydale? :green: And have you seen the Cracking Contraptions shorts? The ingenuity is superb! Love the automated cheese buying misssion contraption...Apollo 13?

Miriam, I've found this too.. giving clear cues to the ponies provides it's own challenges because of their height issues.. Also working with a very tall horse.. any close up work and they're looking right over your head. (I guess our medium sized girls are just perfect Leigh! :green: )

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 5:47 pm
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Location: Grantville, PA
Miraim, no wonder you do so much kneeling- that is six to nine inches of torso you can add in there. Ya know, that parellis have people see what they can encourage their horse to do while sitting in a chair- maybe that's not a bad idea!

So anyways, pesade and levade??? :huh:

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:06 am 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:51 pm
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Location: Netherlands
danee wrote:
So... any ideas on teaching a diference between "I want a few small rears in succession," and, "I want one tall rear," and "I want you to stay longer in the rear." I can ask for "more rear" but he can interpret that anyway he wants and I am not sure how to help him find alternative answers.


What I did for differentiating between then, was practicing the three in different places:

- Levade: with a pole lying on the ground in front of the front feet (Blacky can choose if he jumps over it in levade, or stays on the same side). The pole actually helped him at first to keep the rear low because now he was focused on getting over it instead of going up. Later on he stayed on the same side and collected the levade more and more.
- Pesade: In the middle of th paddock
- Walk courbette: I ask for the pesade and add the voice cue for walk, and Blacky walks forwards on his hindlegs
- Terre a terre: more levades after another (without the pole)
- Courbette jump: out of the terre a terre in order to collect Blacky and make him feel more jumpy. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:08 am 
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Location: Washington, Maine USA
GREAT ideas for discriminations Miriam!!

Thanks!

Brenda

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:25 pm 
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hi there :D :D :D ok, just read and read and read. i have been starting rear with Bandi. i have no real direction as to what type to start with, but at the moment Bandi is just offering little more than a small lift off the ground. we are only less than a week into this, so we are at the very beginning.

i started to get rear off the pedistal. i noticed that if i made the pedistal smaller and he got a little confused with where to put his legs, he would give a little hop type rear. so i rewarded this and noticed that he especially did this from the off side leg lifting to pedistal first. so i started to work on this. even just a lift from the shulders upwards was rewarded.

he picked it up quickly. and so i added a cue, made sure that he understands the difference between pedistal and rear, and then i have moved him to a special little log for rear. he offeres so many of the little rears, but none are really collected or of any substancial size, but they are what he is offering. so now i am looking for advice on how to improve the rear, or i would assume the we might start with levade.

this is the first video. this was our first day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzSYw2VdISY it is not much really, but the next one is loading. i will post it soon.

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Location: Pacific Northwest U.S.
jessplum wrote:
hi there :D :D :D ok, just read and read and read. i have been starting rear with Bandi. i have no real direction as to what type to start with, but at the moment Bandi is just offering little more than a small lift off the ground. we are only less than a week into this, so we are at the very beginning.

i started to get rear off the pedistal. i noticed that if i made the pedistal smaller and he got a little confused with where to put his legs, he would give a little hop type rear. so i rewarded this and noticed that he especially did this from the off side leg lifting to pedistal first. so i started to work on this. even just a lift from the shulders upwards was rewarded.

he picked it up quickly. and so i added a cue, made sure that he understands the difference between pedistal and rear, and then i have moved him to a special little log for rear. he offeres so many of the little rears, but none are really collected or of any substancial size, but they are what he is offering. so now i am looking for advice on how to improve the rear, or i would assume the we might start with levade.

this is the first video. this was our first day.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzSYw2VdISY it is not much really, but the next one is loading. i will post it soon.


Timing is crucial. Also allowing the horse a fair amount of time to develop the body condition (muscle and sinew development) to improve.

The goal should be to hit the precise moment, that instant, when he is in or nearest the form you wish. Think of it as being "in-frame," and hit that with a click and treat.

I try to enable the horse to be doing what I wish and still able to accept the treat.

Say I want the to tuck their chin in. At first they will lose the position at the sound of the click, but I treat anyway. Soon I move on to treating when they are in form, and clicking in the same instant if possible.

I think many others do this as well and thus can rather quickly get duration ... that is the holding of a behavior form for longer time.

It helps if play and fun are part of it, of course.

Donald

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:45 pm
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hithere :D :D so finally it has worked. youtube failed for me over and over, but they have down loaded FINALLY!!!!

so this is Bandi and i playing with a little rear that we have started from pedistal. we are just beginning to get a cue, and it is nothing special, except that he is ofering it freely and without me having to force him at any point. it is so calm, and relaxed. i like this. so this is how we are going after about a week. tell me what you think? what advice do you all have? where to go from here? how long do i just leave it naturally as it is to get used to the feel and muscle development, or do i start changing it now? so many questions!!! :D :D i am just so excited by this, as it is just the nicest little rear, because it did not come from evasion or fear!! :kiss: just because he worked out i liked it :kiss: :kiss:

VIDEO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9XCojOJUQM

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:45 pm
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ok, i just wanted tro post an update photo sesion of our rearing. this is what we have moulded from a rear off the pedistal. i think that it is pretty good. when i ask for it, i have been asking him to move back ready first, so that he is engaged, then i ask for the "UP" he is so calm and controled and i am noticing that he is building muscles in his hind. i am so happy with him. but i am not at all an expert on rear, so i have a sequence of photos, as best as we could on my phone, (long story) so i would love some help. i am not at all assertive, but it looks like it. but i want the rear aid to be very clear so that he cannot get it confused. so i make sure it looks like a rear aid. although, i dont need to even use my hands, he just goes up on the word. so anyway, here are the photos.


to get a really good set up i ask for the tiny little rear, otherwise i ask for him to move back, and he seems to get to only move back te fronts, i actually dont know how h does this, i need my video camrea back!!!
Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:21 am
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Location: Germany, Black Forest
Hi Jessy,
I have no answers, just wanted to say this is very interesting for me because I'm also at the very beginning of rearing with Filux. Looking forward to answers of others :)

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 7:36 pm 
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It's lovely Jesse...I think in time, as he grows stronger in the haunches, he will need his head less for lifting the front end.

:clap:

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:42 am 
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hi there :D :D thankyou both. i love it at the moment, because it is something that bandi is offering. i probably would like to have worked on a few different exercises first, but i felt the need to catch it as he offered a rear type lift in the beginning when i started to make the pedistal smaller. i did not want to miss an opertunity to play with something that he seened to like alot.

what are some good strenghening exercises that we can do for the hindquater? i have been doing alot of trotting out almost lenghening, then slowing up and trying to keep a kind of collection going. i have also started to teach laterals, and he is really getting that well. he is only 15 months old, so i am only trying to stick to things that he has offered to me, i dont want to stress his joints and bones out, but he is so enthusiastic and i know how much young horses play, so i feel pretty comefortable working with him totally at liberty. i know that he is only doing what he can. :f:

so i would love some suggestions for exercises to improve the rear. he really does lift with his neck alot.

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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 7:28 am 

Joined: Wed May 23, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Austria
hi everybody,

when my little arab and me started with collection, we did it the following way:

The first step was to teach malcolm to move his weight from his shoulders to his hindquarters. I did this by lifting his head more and more so he kind of leaned back, put his hindquarters more under his body and continously learned how to carry increasing weight with his haunches. After a while this helped him to become really light in his forehand which automatically encouraged him to lift it. So the lifting of the forehand was a logic result of this exercise.

As time went by, it was only neccessary to lean my own bodyweight a bit towards his hindquarters and he knew what to do. He does this exercise while working in hand on cavesson or bit but also at liberty. When I want him to do a pesade at liberty I put my hand on his chest and lean backwards and there we go. Of course it is not that precise (and he uses his neck a bit more to lift) as when doing this exercise in hand, but he likes it and has plenty of fun with it - and me too. :)

Here is a picture of my husband and malcolm doing the pesade:
Image


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 Post subject: Re: 4: Pesade and Levade
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:33 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:45 pm
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that is an absolutely beautiful picture. i kind of get the meaning of what you mean, but i am finding it hard to fully understand. do you have a you tube of this? i love watching videos to learn, as i am useless at understanding through words.

when you say lifting his head, do you mean nose up, or while "on the bit" or should i say, were you meaning just lifting the headcollar, or were you meaning more him lifting his pole towards the sky?

i am standing in front of bandi with the rear, and although many find this a little dangerouse or incorrect, i feel better there. i have had some terrible and dangerouse experiences from the shoulder, and i think that the horse can sense this and they do not work at the shoulder well with me. but i am trying and the eventual aim is to be able to ask from anywhere.

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