The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:17 pm 
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Yes - again I have something else in the meaning of a word than the rest of the world... :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:29 pm 
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Kirsti wrote:
Yes - again I have something else in the meaning of a word than the rest of the world... :lol:


or I maybe? :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:43 pm 
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Josepha wrote:
to me 'focus' and rewarding are totally different things.

When I need to do a task, and someone is standing next to me, viewing my every move like an eagle to see how I am doing... no, not a good thing for me.

I mean 'focus' in a predator sort of way.
Eye-ing someone out...
That very same focus horses use to send each other away, is the same focus a lot if riders use on their horse when riding.
Constantly watching every move like a hawk.

that is different then enjoying some ones company or loving someones every move.
That to me is being, working and playing together, not focussing on someone.

You see, how words mean different to every one?

:lol:


For myself it makes all the difference who that person is to me, how trustworthy they are, (and how much I trust them or do not).

The skilled teacher is a joy to have focus on me and gather information to help me improve my performance toward my goal.

I am thrilled they are so focused.

The nasty critical unskilled 'teacher,' real or self appointed, on the other hand, that is looking for something to point out to blame, or shame, or insult me with is another matter entirely.

Performance anxiety in front of a crowd of people must have some of that challenge in it. One knows that some will be nasty critics, and that some will be good teachers in the sense they look for what you do well, and how their response might improve your performance.

Even when a teacher is hard, as long as they are fair, and they are especially very good at finding out about me those things I wish to know to improve, I am more welcoming of their intense focus, and less afraid of it.

The quality of the relationship, above all.

Which I expect of myself when I am with the horse. That I look to how to coach her to be her best. And of course that depends so much on MY values. For I am deciding what is her best.

And if I am wrong for that horse she will be afraid of my 'focus' and correction. How good a teacher am I? How supportive? How nurturing? How good or poor my judgment?

The horse will teach me that.

In the end.

One way or another.

Funny, I think I've seen it written somewhere by someone that the horse is the true master.

Now who could that have been, eh? :wink:

Donald Redux

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:34 pm 
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yeah, who indeed :)

And rightly so. I still see 'focus' as something predatorial (as that a word?).

I would indeed call it teaching or attention.

You explain... and then you wait.

People need to wait more, much more, and need to be more silent... or so I think :)

I just copy what Owen does, and it always pays off :)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:57 pm 
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Josepha wrote:
yeah, who indeed :)

And rightly so. I still see 'focus' as something predatorial (as that a word?).


Nope. Should be simply 'predatory.'
It serves as both a verb and an adjective without modification.

Sort of like some English words have the plural and singular forms without any change.

Josepha wrote:
I would indeed call it teaching or attention.

You explain... and then you wait.

People need to wait more, much more, and need to be more silent... or so I think :)

I just copy what Owen does, and it always pays off :)


I think I think like you think. I'm not sure the "silence," need necessarily not making mouth noises, so much as it needs to be critical silence. But some kind of feedback.

One of the recent concepts introduced here from SATs, the 'Intermediate Bridge, being a case in point.

A softer quieter sound repeated, that tells the student that she or he is going in the desired direction.

Real coaching, thus real Teaching, by a real Teacher, could consist of that kind of supportive sound that shows something else I'm not sure even SATs people have thought of, or maybe they have.

That would be proof to the student, yet without interference of negative 'focus' that the teacher is indeed focused on the student.

Of course having a fun outing with no dang focus at all is yet another way to "teach."

It says, I care about you enough to relax with you.

Another element of the Good Teacher, and add to it the humility that teachers need, that one about not being perfect :lol: thus also vulnerable as the student tends to make a well rounded and effective successful teacher.

I have always thanked my students over the years, from the first lesson when they knew little. For it is a privilege, and a deep trust given me when they allow me to teach them.

That included even small children.

And yes, I remembered to thank Dakota when I finished up and left him a few days ago. :lol:

Donald Redux

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:45 pm 
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I just meant by the focus that I tend to concentrate to much on what am I doing how are my legs, how should they be, is Beau reacting, what is going wrong, how should I change it, is it ok now.... I think too much!!!
So saturday I was babbling with the candylady, not paying attention and was just doing stuff, turning left, right, halt back up, walk again, sidepass and than going in to a circle again, without thinking too much.
I seem to know what I should do, but I have the habit of starting to think about it, because I want to do it so good for Beau that it is becoming increasingly bad. I have ridden so many horses but I never got further than the basic sideways movements and some easy dressage things before they were sold. And I've ridden superwell trained horse too, but I've never trained them past a certain point which makes me uncertain and I am worried I guess that I would do harm to Beau that is why I tend to start think and focus to much. And then it is pressure... So I'll try to go back to my old self... :)

And I wanted to mention one thing, I've changed my reins from the leather ones into my parelli ones with clips and I like riding with them much more... they give a much better feel !!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:42 am 
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Exactly Barbara, people need more feel! :)
That is why I keep the lessons so simple.
A few basics and the rest is feel....

@ donald, I meant with silence, silence in your head to hear the horse speak.

And silence instead of people loudly babbling all the time against their horse... Saying the same wordless thing over and over... That really gets on my nerves sometimes, especially when I am trying to work with their horse, I need them to be silent and observe (So they can take over, what good is it if only I can work with their horse?).

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 9:26 am 
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I am babbling to my horses.... :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 6:45 pm 
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Image

Is he trotting strange? I'm a bit worried, maybe his strange trot is the reason he holds his head high or maybe the other way around or maybe that's just a quarter...
Can anyone tell me what you think about it?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:16 am 
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He seems a bit stiff in the lower back, hips and joints in his hindlegs. Nothing of real concern I guess but good to have a physical therapist to take a look at it. It doesn't seems to come from one place at first sight as far as I can see and my knowlegde goes. You can always give something like with Glucosamine, Chondroitin and MSM to help the joins to become more flexible.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:19 pm 
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He is counter bending, and it could be that bracing that is causing the stiffness and not a real physical problem. When a horse moves counter bent, he is mentally and physically stiffened against the movement you are asking, and he cannot step under properly with the inside hind.

Remember the illustration I made of the type of Chris Irwin lunging? One, when you ask him to go to the right or the left, look that direction an turn your upper body in that direction as you ask him to go (he is going more willingly though! Isn't he? Hurray for you!).

Then, keep your body turned the direction you are traveling, and even a bit more...push your hip/shoulder toward his haunch with each step you take to ask him to move his haunch outward a little, and at the same time, your upper body can "invite" him to look inward on the circle. Of course he may stop and completely turn in, but practice and experiment to see if you can invite him to relax and bend on the circle.

I can't say for sure that something isn't wrong, but if you can encourage him to bend on the circle (and not look outward) then he will relax on the circle more and you will probably see a huge improvement in his movement (I made a rhyme!!! :lol: ).


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:18 pm 
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I know he was trotting very stiff, partly because I was looking at him and Adriaan was filming him ( lot of pressure...) But I wonder too if there is more, I'll keep checking on it, I have 10 weeks before I have to pay my saddle, the dentist has to come and the trimmer for Beau, so expensive times...
But thank you for your idea's, I'll try Karen's idea and sneak to see if he is stiff :) I only see it when i stand the wrong way...
and then before his now saddle arrives I'll try to get a physical therapist over here.

THANK YOU!


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:53 pm 
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Barbara, have a look here:

http://www.chrisirwin.com/articles-chris.php

download the article, "The language of the lunge".

This is an article by Chris Irwin, and although I see it's slightly different than I am now doing it, it does explain quite nicely a particular point that I couldn't figure out how to describe...that is, bending your own body in the same way that you wish your horse to bend.

I keep my focus still, on where I want the horse to go, but this is a good article, with pictures, and it's free! It may help!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:45 am 
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Hi Barbara,

I couldn't see anything on the video, except to agree with others about him looking stiff and bent to the outside. If you could get a clip of him moving straight along with his head long and low, that might help.

Another idea for gait analysis is to use slow motion, not sure what video editing program you use??

Brenda

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:13 pm 
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I'm not good at computers and programs :)
I'll see whether I can film him another time, but it depends on a lot of things how he is trotting, I'm thinking it probably is all about stress. I'll keep watching out for any signs and try to get some of it on film.

Ps. those articles are great Karen, you should put them in the research section, or are they there yet and did I miss them?


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