The Art of Natural Dressage

o yes, and at the end of the vid, it looks like she is smiling

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www.equusuniversalis.com

I SAW IT TOO! Oh Sue....it is lovely!!! She is finding all the right ways to move herself...it's gorgeous!!!

(Sue...did I mention how GOOD you look? You look younger!)

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"Ride reverently, as if each step is the axis on which the earth revolves"

Woohoo! Glad you guys spotted it! Most of it occurred out of the picture.

She's actually doing it now quite a lot for fun, even when we're out riding. I'll ask her to canter and about 15% of the time she goes into this amazing collected canter for a few steps. Or a lovely "picked up by the scruff of the neck trot. Last week I had the remnants of the flu, and my COUGH kept causing her to coil up her loins as I curled up mine to hack! We do lots and lots of lateral movement when we're trail riding, and it just seems more natural and less of a brain bender that way - move away from the noisy truck but look at it at the same time, go left to let a bicycle past and make sure you don't point your hind end at them. The other day I FINALLY managed to get the feeling through to my no1keen young riding student who is preparing for her "galop 4" next trip home to France. The secret - a small snake coiled up sleeping in a tree branch, just inches away from our shoulders on a narrow trail. Amazing what a perfect performance that kind of motivation can bring.
In the arena it's a bit more perplexing for us. I generally DO overact when it IS an act.

The thing I'm most happy about is that Sunrise and I developed this shoulder in completely without halter or bridle. It's not a shoulder in that's been taught with reins, then ridden in cordeo. I was scared to use reins, not really knowing what I was doing, and haul her around, unbalance her, and force her into some sort of screwed up version. So we worked on it at liberty in groundwork to get the feeling, just with a target at first, then off my body positioning. It's still one of her favorite default performances.

I used some suggestions I got from KFH - set up a lane with tape, and always begin in the same place when first learning - when I began to try riding her in shoulder in, without tack at all at first, and then with a cordeo. So she knew already, Oh! Yay! We're at the start of the tape lane, we're going to do shoulder in and I'm getting carrots!!!! So then I didn't really have to do anything, Just sit nicely and try to feel what she was doing and follow it. Well.. a little more than that. Something like a slight curl of the loins for a "half-halt" kind of thing, and simultaneously angling hips and reaching.

My cues are a bit more convoluted in this little video, because we haven't ridden in cordeo for ages, haven't ridden in arena for ages, and I'm asking for the shoulder in at odd places.
But really, it should be so light.

Thanks for watching!

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,
But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

oh and




Yes Josepha!! She is! She often smiles!! She has a cheeky grin too. And another smile that is a coy "butter wouldn't melt" smile, when she's really pleased with herself.
This smile is her simple "that was fun and I did good" smile. She often does little things for me now when she knows I don't have treats.. and it's all about that smile.


Yes. I'm younger. I had a life lift.
Thankyou!

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

I only noticed a beaming smile and a happy, willing horse and enjoyed the chickens too. xx

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Susie xx
http://www.flickr.com/photos/piepony/

Here's a bit more that missed getting on the first video.
Practicing for half pass. I used a twist and then a very deliberate slight tilt over my outside
a la JPG. Sunrise seems to like that, so long as I don't overdo it and press down too much on the outside and stiffen up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ufb6tCY2iWg

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

Karen wrote (and gave me permission to repost here)



And I replied:




I've just been out riding Sunrise, both in the arena and outside on the road, and thinking about these things. Sunrise isn't really wanting to do nice half passes either way at the mo! Hmm Is she confused? I don't think so. Just not top of her menu at the mo. And I haven't really been reinforcing her for the elements of it lately.

However, YES, she does do a halfpass using either method, although, putting my outside shoulder back, I had to use much more rein pressure to contain and direct her over. And sometimes she was confusing it with a shoulder in then.. because OUTSIDE shoulder back would be outside shoulder if she DOES do halfpass.. but if she continues moving in the same direction, say right, with my left shoulder back, but bends the other way, to her left, then she's doing shoulder in and it's my INSIDE shoulder??
So.. how do I convey to her the difference between shoulder in and half pass then, if it's MY same shoulder that's back. Hmmm of course, there is a difference in weight shift and direction of my energy. But I found that wasn't enough unless I gave her quite strong direction on the reins as well.

However, ... on a loose rein, going down the straight road say, I can put my left shoulder back and she will bend to her left, moving her shoulders in to the left, and follow my hips into a shoulder in, so moving away to the right, right? If we continue in this direction to her right, with my left leg softly on, and then put my RIGHT shoulder back, she will then bend her shoulders to the right, and continue moving to the right, in a half pass, with very little rein contact, just a slight checking effect, as to say, pay attention now, just as I could with the cordeo, or my seat if she's very tuned in.

I tried to see how this would work if I did the half pass correctly with outside shoulder back. This would mean that I was first bending left in a shoulder in, with my left leg on, and my left (inside) shoulder back. Hips would be slightly tilted to the right to accomodate movement right, so "seated" on the inside, but weight more on the outside. Then, as we were moving to the right, I would tilt over to the left slightly, to receive the right bend, and KEEP my left shoulder back, because that is now going to be the OUTSIDE shoulder.. and precisely nothing would happen, till I took up the reins and pulled her nose in quite strongly, at the same time applied quite a lot of forward and sideways pressure and gave her nowhere else to go. Hmmm


I also first go my REALLY nice correctly bent half pass in the arena, from a ten metre circle.

I held her softly on a small circle, trotting, with my inside shoulder back naturally staying parrallel with her shoulders as she bent strongly, lets say on a left circle. When she was soft and collected and well bent on the circle, all I did was put my outside leg slightly back and tapped her with it and she halfpassed left out of the circle. So obviously, my left shoulder was still back as per the circle, and it was my INSIDE shoulder.

Soo.. If I was going to repeat this method to ask for first steps of half pass, but this time correctly, would we be bent on a small circle left, my left shoulder back, my "navel stick" pointing always left to continue the circle, then when I wanted to move diagonally left while retaining the same bend, would I first put my right "outside" shoulder back then ask it..
I'm REALLY confused now! If I did this, then Sunrise would immediately follow my "navel stick" and bend right.. unless I held her to the bend with reins.

PLEASE someone help me make sense of this. Is it something I'm not getting.. or IS there a difference between riding a horse whose HEAD you're not controlling.. And if so.. Is there any reason it would be bad to continue to reinforce her for doing it this way? Would it be better to use the reins, or a target or something, to teach her to bend away from my shoulder direction?
Or is it that their shoulders AREN"T actually bent, say left in a left half pass, but angled with the left shoulder forward to provide the reach, and doing it with her shoulder actually bent left will leave her hindquarters trailing?

Josepha, Karen??????

As soon as I start using any pressure, I just get so scared of mucking it all up. REally, i trust no-one but Sunrise.. and so many,all, of the great trainers say you can't do that, because the horse will always avoid what is hard for them, even when it is good for them.. They must be corrected! But if I correct, am I correcting correctly? Seems safer to just go along with what feels right for her. Hmm

PLEASE.... Some feedback!!


(Oh, and Karen, regards the first shoulder in vid, i think that the times when Sunrise is actually doing a shoulder in quite well, I DO have my inside shoulder back. Like the one that starts at 2.00. Where are you seeing the opposite?

xxx

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

I'm running all this in my head...over and over. Your description of the circle is the most telling. Your shoulders aligned with Sunny's. Then you put your outside leg beck slightly to ask for the half pass and ta-da, there it is. I think that with a cordeo (and perhaps with the rein) this is most correct and easiest for Sunny to understand. She bends willingly and moves away from a soft outside leg.

I still get confused...often...on what is correct, what is not correct and what works for the horse. It's really the latter that is most important, right? And since we all agree that every horse is different and every rider is different, then I shouldn't walk in say anything to the effect that "you're not doing it right". Never, ever, and I apologize all over the place for doing that, even a little bit.

When I went to a recent dressage clinic (auditing only), I came away with a lot of lovely imagery that really did help me with my seat, how I use it, how I sit, how my position affects (blocking or allowing) the horse in all movements. Simply by sitting up and slightly back while keeping my chest up and open and softening my hips and being very aware of how my pelvis is tipped, made a world of difference in Tam's way of going...his EASE of movement was improved a lot. So that clinic helped me TONS.

In the same clinic, the instructor told one rider (who wanted to do half pass) to simply aim the front of the horse diagonally across the arena. Keep the shoulders aligned with those of the horse. So shoulders straight (not putting one back or the other), aim the front half of the horse directly to the point across the arena you wish to go (and stay on that path) then reach back with outside leg and simply ask the horse to shift the haunches in off the track.

SHE said, that in half pass, the hind legs cross and the front legs do not.

OOOOOOoooooooo! How simple! I liked that! I could do THAT! And I did. It was lovely! Then JP crushed it all by saying that it was a haunches in on a diagonal track and not a half pass at all. Darn.


JP said that in a correct half pass, the front legs DO cross. He said you rarely see correct half pass in competition any more...what you tend to see is what the instructor described. Well...you know me. I want to at least LEARN what is "correct". So I abandoned the "haunches in on a diagonal path". I think it would still be brilliant for the sake of education for some to play with the movement in the way the instructor described though. It's certainly easier for the horse to do it this way initially, and it helps the rider to work positioning without confusing the horse.

The benefit for me in playing with it was that I found that I did not have to really put an outside shoulder back at all...it was more just a thought of putting it back...sort of like aiming my conscious thought through my outside shoulder and directing the thought toward the outside hind of the horse (which helps the horse engage the outside hind?). It's a hard one to explain. But suffice it to say, that in shoulder in, or half pass, the shoulder moving back is not at all dramatic...it's "just barely". Just like the seat, moving one hip back or the other, is a very slight move and is really just a result of the outside leg of the rider moving back to aid the horse...right? And if it IS the case that one should keep the shoulders always aligned with the horse's shoulders, then the outside shoulder certainly wouldn't go back (unless the horse was NOT engaging the outside hind).

Paul also told me to do a lot less with my shoulders than I was doing. He calls it kinking. Don't kink to the inside on a circle or shoulder in, don't kink to the outside on haunches in, half pass or canter departs. I was kinking a lot and it's a habit I'm trying to break...because I also figured out that I don't "kink" the same in both directions...so doing less allows me to be more even from right to left. An added benefit.

But back to the question of what is correct, I think you are taking the truest way to finding out, and that is simply by letting Sunny tell YOU what works for her. Really, this is also what I've done with Tam. I do not make him obey something I'm doing....I ride experimentally to see what HE thinks, how HE moves and how he can or cannot move depending on what I'm doing.

So I think this is a really long way of saying that I should not have said anything in any way that sounded like I knew what I was talking about because I'm not Sunrise and there is no way for me to know. And it's certainly not time for me to be spouting knowledge that I don't possess. Maybe ten years from now. Maybe. Maybe not even then.

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"Ride reverently, as if each step is the axis on which the earth revolves"

I'm going to get back to the Lateral stuff.. but first..



Nononononnonoononononono!!!! nononononono and some more no!

And some flowers to say thankyou and please, sorry for bringing you to that conclusion!

I NEEEEEED YOU!
Having someone as intelligent and thoughtful as you, even semi-knowledgeable about this technical stuff, is such a wonderful gift to me! I can't take my weird thoughts and ideas and questions to the traditional places - not to JP or anyone else like that. So I'm left alone with inadequate knowledge, confusion and muddy thinking. Then you step in, and I TRUST you - not that you're ALWAYS right (though you often are), but that I can talk through my confusion with you, and you won't stomp all over me, you'll listen, and make sense of what I say, and together we'll arrive at some happy, wide open, accepting and graceful conclusions.

Until you drew it to my attention, I wasn't even aware that I was turning in to her direction of travel. And yet, at other times, I deliberately do it the other way, after reading through the "correct" directions and getting it all straight in my head. So just the fact of you SEEING that and telling me helped me enormously! Wow! I need to think about this some more!! And then in trying to express it to you, (which I do because I trust you!) I was able to get much clearer - I'd never analyzed how it works off the circle before. All I'd known was that I was muddy and unclear with Sunrise, never knowing quite what I should do when I THOUGHT about it. And then I get scared because I might be missing something obvious. But once again, I trust you enormously, to tell me the truth, as you see, at the time, with total honesty about your own possible misconceptions etc... So there's DOUBLE or more of a chance that if there is a hole, one of us will find it!

And we NEED to talk about this stuff! If not here, with our valued and trusted friends, who believe in us, then were? Karen, it would be so lonely in my world without your feedback!!

And you NEVER spout knowledge! You share, graciously and generously, what you know, what you discover, what you are learning and what you are thinking about. And you are ALWAYS very clear and very humble, and NEVER present your ideas as "THE way", always leave room for others to have differing opinions, and always explicitly display you "learner plates" so there is no possibility of others being mislead into thinking you have more experience than you do. It is precisely your "learner" status that makes you so valuable to me!! If you were already absolutely sure of yourself and your knowledge and your method, I would have to find someone else to take me heresies to! But somehow, I think even in ten or twenty years time, you still won't be spouting.. you're just not that kind of person. You're a sharer and a listener and a learner, not a spouter.

So Karen, THANKYOU
( I just found out that word has just the right number of letters for all the colours of the rainbow!)
For your kindness and courage in sharing what you know and giving me such valuable feedback, that I'm so craving, and for your patience and energy in talking it all through with me in such an open way.

And I'm SO SORRY for being so brash and foot in mouth that I've made it seem like I'm arguing with you or criticizing your knowledge.. that's my straightforwardtothegoal I'm happy so everyone else must be Sagittarian foot in mouth self..

Please know how much I appreciate you! And PLEASE don't stop sharing with me, when you think I'm wrong, or have overlooked something, or could be doing something better. Right or wrong, on or off track, the discussions that ensue are wonderful learning and sharing opportunities!

So now can we get back to discussing lateral stuff??? Finally it's beginning to make sense to me!!!

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

You are going to make me post a whole bunch of flowers back, because I did not mean to imply that you implied that...oh shoot...anything! I was just trying to say that I should never say, "You should" because what you wrote after my comments made SO much sense that in my mind it brought me right back to center, and the (likely) truth that we likely shouldn't really turn our shoulders either way to any great or noticeable extent because, if (in my mind) one really should stay parallel with the horses' shoulders, then any shift with the shoulders should be minimal...a cue or aid, then back to parallel. And what you said about putting the inside shoulder back (because Sunny's reaction was to bend her shoulders to the inside) just made SOOOO much sense!

So you think of the bend as bringing the shoulders to the inside (your inside shoulder back), and I think of the bend as bringing the haunches to the inside (my outside shoulder back). In reality, I think if the two of us met in the middle we'd have the perfect bend.

I know that the more time that passes, the less I NEED to do with my shoulders (but then, maybe I never needed to do anything in the first place). I can wind myself right back to complete confusion so easily (and I'm giggling as I write that). So I think over-doing the shoulders (one or the other back) might help us to learn the movement in ourselves that ultimately then becomes more subtle over time, but is it really necessary to the horse?

I'm thinking not.

Here's another thing from the dressage clinic. When one rider couldn't get a correct canter depart, the instructor noticed that the rider was A) leaning forward when asking, and B) leaning slightly to the inside. The instructor had this rider turn her whole upper body around to the outside and tip to the outside until the rider could look back and down at the outside hind leg. Then she asked for the depart and got the correct one every time. This movement (according to the instructor) should be refined to the point of just "thinking" about the outside hind leg of the horse. I tried this. I sat up very straight, tipped the top of my pelvis back slightly, then leaned back JUST off of my own center of gravity...not enough to have to engage my core or tense anything not to fall over...it is just a very tiny, tiny tipping back...but ever so slightly toward Tam's outside hind. He lifted easily into canter when I asked. This has rapidly morphed in straighter and straighter and more upward departs. It is SO cool.

But anyway...I drifted away there...the point is that I am coming to think that the backward movement of one or the other shoulder is meant to be very subtle...yet, no one really spells that out. Move the outside shoulder back...well, how much? And what else is involved? This is seldom addressed. The quality of it is so hard to describe, that I think people don't often try. And even in JP's videos (which I find really helpful, always), there is never any care taken to describe the fact that, once he has someone over-do something in order to get out of a bad habit they happen to have, there needs to be a lessening of action. It needs to be more subtle.

Even Paul has had me do something (over-do something) in order to help me learn something...and then go away having forgotten to tell me that it needs to be done more subtly over time. Then he'll come back several months later and tell me I'm doing too much of that same something...but...that is what he TOLD me to do and under supervision, apparently at the time, I was doing it right. So why was it right, then...and wrong, now? It's because he's not there, every day to say, "now do less...and now do even less...and perhaps at this moment do MORE...but then do less". It's a dance within ourselves that takes place in rhythm with our horses progression of learning. I'm just beginning to understand this. At least I think I am. I hope I'm thinking right!

There is one thing I've learned very well...when someone suggests an aid to me, and how it should be used initially, I always now ask, what form does it take ultimately? So that I know at the outset if it's meant to become more subtle, how it becomes more subtle and when it can become more subtle.

So now...in half pass or in shoulder in, I always check to see how little I can do...with my shoulders, with my seat, etc. Tam will give a half pass with much more subtle aiding at the moment, than shoulder in...but he has always found the former much easier than the latter.

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"Ride reverently, as if each step is the axis on which the earth revolves"

I'm sorry I missed this the first time responding. It is the first shoulder in, on the left rein. The second one, done on the right rein, looks correct.

I'm thinking, re your navel stick (I like that phrase), that you can do less than you are doing? Your inside leg, softly on (just a wee bit more than softly draping) should set the bend, without turning your seat much at all. I spent some time (and should do it more often) simply clicking and rewarding Tam for very slightly changing his bend, at the halt, when I put my inside leg on. If I wish to ask for more bend, I put my outside leg back accordingly and like you, try to keep it all very soft and suggesting. Another thought is that I think that turning the shoulders should only hint at affecting the seat (Josepha? Help...I'm flailing.... ). Bah...this is so hard to discuss isn't it? Because it's so hard to describe! And you are doing things so right, that I feel horrid even suggesting that something might work "better" if you change it. Plus, today, this nearly makes my head swim for some reason. I flounder some times between being fairly certain that I'm getting things right (finally) and feeling that I know what I'm talking about and then really doubting whether I should offer advice to anyone on anything. This all seems so complex at times, so simple at other times. Never in my life have I worked so hard or struggled so much to understand anything.

Back to the navel stick and looking where you're going...and doing less...you only need to look as far to one side or the other as the horse will look. I have a great tendency to look (and turn my shoulders) MORE than Tam turns his head. When Paul was here last, he told me not to turn so far (and the time before that, and probably the time before THAT! )

So this probably boils down to something we all struggle to understand at some point...how much comes from seat, how much from leg, how much from upper body manipulation? And if you are using reins, how much from the reins? Tam gets a lot of information from where I hold the reins (without undue contact). Elevating one rein or the other, opening one or the other, touching one rein to his neck outside the bend, or inside the bend. Paul told me that in shoulder in, I should be able to aid it, then remove all aids and simply hold the movement with the position of the reins (with or without contact). There is a difference of opinion on whether the inside reins should hold the bend, or the outside rein. I've heard both. Tam will do either, but if I hold the bend with the outside rein, it requires slightly more contact than using the inside rein. Most people say (classically) it should be the outside rein. Outside rein contact is tricky business according to Tam. His natural asymmetry makes it easy in one direction and nearly impossible the other direction (we're still working on that).

But with a cordeo, it gets even trickier, and according to Tam, there is a lot of difference between holding the cordeo in one hand, or using two hands and elevating the inside half of the cordeo as if I had reins in my hand.

This is going to get even more complicated now .

When I'm driving Tam with the driving cordeo, I rely on the outside of the cordeo to indicate to Tam to bend away from the cordeo touching the outside of his neck. So I pull slightly on the inside line, which puts cordeo pressure on the outside of his neck, and he turns away from the pressure. Then the lines contacting his haunches, tell his haunches which direction we're going to go laterally. Outside contact with the cordeo and outside haunch contact with the line produces a half pass. Outside cordeo contact, paired with haunch contact on the inside haunch, produces shoulder in. To replicate the shoulder in under saddle with the cordeo, I need to move my inside leg back...which is very incorrect, but works for Tam naturally, based on what he's learned from the driving. Because this is contrary to what I think I should be doing to produce shoulder in under saddle, it's one more reason why I haven't spent a lot of time riding with the cordeo this last year. I'm learning to ride, learning to aid, learning to use the reins, and the language that Tam and I have with the cordeo muddies all that up.

At some point, I'll get back to it...but for now I have so much I need to learn myself (and Tam is doing amazing). Yesterday, when I rode, I briefly tried shoulder in and half pass with the cordeo alone. Half pass was successful, shoulder in was messy...but shoulder in is not Tam's favorite thing (half pass is one of his "happy places" and he finds it easy).

All this is probably just more confusing. I know I am very confused!

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"Ride reverently, as if each step is the axis on which the earth revolves"

Haha.. well, welcome to my nightmare!

No, in all honesty, things are slightly clearing. I do have to LISTEN to Sunrise more though. I've realised again that it's okay to "try" everyones theories, but I have to take what she says seriously, and not PUSH her to do it their way or my way, if I want to live in happy horse land, because when I do...

Well.. yesterday, I wanted to ride again and just try very softly the various options in half pass with more awareness to try to fathom this out a little more.
Nothing. Nada.
Half pass is not fun any more. So not fun that even my pocket full of carrots couldn't motivate her, and she wouldn't move out of trot in the arena. She wouldn't even move sideways for trucks coming at us when we were out on the road which she's been doing with a smile since she was a two year on cycling trips, and I'd say left or right to her! We're all out of half pass today sorry Sue.

It will come back.. I know. I just have to leave her alone and do other things that she wants to do with her for a while, then introduce it to her in a fun way again one day when she's motivated. Right back to scratch with CTing for the little elements... Then I'll have to be a little more tactful with my experiments.



Yes, I can! I can do lots less than what I'm doing and often do. Honestly, she GLIDES along in a shoulder in with almost no visible cuing.. in the right place at the right time. (Half pass too used to be ) I play with this when I'm riding outside, sitting straight and relaxed, with reins at the buckle in my upheld hand, I change my INTERNAL body position slightly, ever so slightly, so that my EYES look, say left, with a certain tension in my body ready to receive her right shoulder and follow her left hip under, and she'll reposition her head ever so slightly to the left and and bend ever so slightly through the entire length of her body and continue on with her stride unchanged. Then I'll think.. naaahh.. she's just looking at the horses over in the field.. so ever so slightly rearrange my body positioning the other way ,and wait.. and voila.. suddenly the feilds on the other side of us have her attention. On a good day, half pass out on the road was working like this too. And on the day we discovered cuing for canter leads, she was cantering them for fun.

HOWEVER we've always found it more difficult in the arena. There seems to be no natural motivation to help her, (or me) with it. So it has always required a more deliberate cue.

The "navel stick" has to be a very exaggerated and deliberate tool But not held stiff so the rest of the body is out) when I ride with the cordeo or she just doesn't respond to it..(Not unless we've been practicing and refining. (Which we haven't been doing lately). She is a very opinionated girl, and in this situation, I have to be very clear and BIG about any cue, for her to notice it above her own ideas. Then, if I CT, CT, and don't confuse her with other things, she'll get turned on to it, and I can refine it down. This is the difference I find with riding with reins though.. with reins, I can just say, HEY.. pay attention, I was asking you something.. But with the cordeo, no. And outsidethere seems to be a common focus and purpose. We have at times refined it down and done less. But doing more always comes first.


Funnily too.. I've been having trouble for YEARS with a our pony Bella. She has a huge resistance which has made her unpleasant for anyone to ride, and impossible for the kids who are supposed to be riding her. When asked for turn, even very correctly and nicely, she would immediately stiffen, bend the other way, and often veer off in the opposite direction. Tried everything, right through to completely retraining her with alternate cues and CT.. NOTHING worked reliably. One day, not long ago, desperate, I rode her VERY correctly, with a little S that she couldn't barge through, used VERY strong, overexaggerated navel stick cues and a stick to reinforce my inside leg and move her over in a shoulder in every time she resisted the bend.. It took about two hours of consistently saying to her, NO, not that way, THIS way, without losing my cool, but without giving her an inch of wrong direction to move in, and suddenly, she just sighed, softened, went happy and sweet, and for the first time in her career with us, became soft and flowing and dreamy to ride! And it's lasted! A permanent new leaf! For the first month or so, I needed to ride her three or four times a week, only for ten minutes, with an exaggerated steering navel, and then she'd sigh and smile and go sweet, and I could immediately refine all the cues down to the minimum. Now she automatically goes into sweet. Even for her kids. And she's soooo much happier. She's a delight! In and out of saddle. And her shoulder in is prettyprettypretty! Awesome when we play tag with one of the other horses. She moves like a bullfighting pony and she LOOOOOVES it! (She has a great sense of humour!)

Anyway, rambling a little .. but my point is, I think sometimes you do have to exaggerate the cue, and then the goal is to minimize it. But to minimize it, the horse has to be picking up that it IS a cue.. that means, attending, noticing, wanting to be tuned in. So the cue has to be however unsubtle it needs to be to make the horse aware that you are asking SOMETHING!

So.. long to short I agree that the navel stick could be (and should be) more subtle, but on this day, it couldn't.. or you wouldn't have seen any responses on film at all... just Sunrise hippety hopping around doing her own thing, which she is also very accomplished at, and I don't mind that at all! (much!) Sunrise is a VERY independent miss... very different from your Tam or my H.. She can also know EXACTLY what I want, but not feel that it's very important for her to do that at the moment...because she has other things in mind.
So, then sometimes, if I can say "Hey, no really, I DO suggest we do this" she'll say "Oh okay, if you REALLY want to" and that's where the stronger less subtle cue comes in.. although with just the cordeo, it's still a cue that she can refuse to respond to if she chooses.


And I think that a lot of that information might actually come through your body, not your reins to his nose per se, as the way that you hold the reins affects the way that you hold your body. Which is maybe why it doesn't translate so easily to cordeo. Because you hold and move your body slightly differently when you use it.

Cordeo works best for me when S is really tuned in already, and then I use it in one hand, sitting up really tall with hand held high, like western reins. So my body is moving more naturally, not affected so much by handling the cordeo. So,. when it's like this, I actually don't need the cordeo really at all, because I can play "air reins" and it would be just as effective. Have you played with this at all?


Okay, so this is a difference I think. My inside leg doesn't really ask for bend so much. It asks for movement away. I don't bend the horse "around my leg".. this requires pressure on the outside too, to "channel" it. I know this is "correct" but it just doesn't feel like what I want. It feels too contained. Too heavy. Even Sally Swift in her imagery of water through a pipe talks about it, using words that somehow don't sit with me. And horses being ridden like this always seem to me to be sooo constrained through the bridle. Until later stages of course. if the rider is good. And of course.. I could be wrong.. Very wrong. I'm definitely in a very tiny minority, perhaps of only one..

Anyway, when I did the CTing for stationary bend that you talk about, I just sat on my horse and turned fractionally in the direction I wanted the bend. I LOOKED where I wanted the horse to look, allowing my physical orientation to go down very subtly right through to my toes.. ie, not just look with head and eyes. I didn't use any extra pressure on inside leg, except what naturally occurred in the thigh area through the slight repositioning.
Leg on means away, so my same leg can ask for shoulder in or halfpass, depending on where I'm oriented. Leg more at girth asks for shoulders more over, legs more towards hindquarters ask for hindquarters over. I don't need to rely on outside rein to provide the direction. WOW! I've got it.. that's how we did it. Now I understand!

So.. don't know if that's all a good idea or there are going to be negative consequences to it that I haven't thought about..
Where is the flaw in my method? Hmmm Or is that why S and I haven't really perfected this all yet? Or is THAT just because we've been practicing so haphazardly.
OH THE FOG THE FOG!

WISH you could put some of these questions to Paul..
Would LOVE to hear his thoughts.

xx
Sue

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I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

_________________


I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

_________________


I have not sought the horse of bits, bridles, saddles and shackles,

But the horse of the wind, the horse of freedom, the horse of the dream. [Robert Vavra]

Oh wonderfull, I need to go and practice some in saddle flexions I believe

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kirsten
time is what you make of it