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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:48 am 
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Location: Quebec, Canada
Very strange behavior from Dreamer tonight. The farrier trimmed his feet and the owner was there. Dreamer was calm while Nancy (the owner) was holding him with a lead rope. He started licking the stool and wouldn't stop. Nancy said he always did this. But after he finished, he was salivating like crazy. He was just drooling all over. Again, she said he always did this. I have never seen this before. I have to check the internet. He seemed very calm, his eyes were calm and wasn't at all nervous. Wow, this was something to see.

Anyone else see this kind of behavior in a horse??

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Jocelyne
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:56 am 
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Strange that you write this now. We are just contacting our horse dentist to check Lily, because since a few days she's salivating little green puddles when we take her from the pasture. She stands there and suddenly starts to chew and lick and then salivate.
We have never observed that before - a vet told us that it could be due to a change of pasture. Maybe she's eating something strange at the place where we groom her...
Since the dentist is due to come anyway, we will check that first. But I'm also very interested in any other opinion and experiences with this kind of behaviour.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:22 pm 
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One of my Spanish girls does this, she is the full sister to Gaucho my lad who tongue sucks. When Frankie ( Libertada V ) came to us she was starved, terrified of humans and very closed down. Even though fully grown and much bigger than her mother who we also rescued she would hide behind mum like a new born foal. For about a year we did very little with the two girls just allowing them time to heal and build their trust in us.

One day when I was clicker training one of our other horses I could hear a strange noise and looked in Frankie's direction. She was salivating like crazy, white foam covered most of her mouth and nostrils and it was falling to the ground. She also looked calm and for a long time would do this when I clicker trained close to her. She does not do this when I clicker train her but will at times still do it if I am working with another horse. She is no longer afraid of humans or quite so dependant on her mum and from her reaction would say she really enjoys clicker training.

I did read that this could be due to a release of emotion the mouth being attached to the limbic system. I'm sorry I can't remember the link to the article or exactly what it said as it was some time ago.

If you want me to try and find out more let me know.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:33 pm 

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Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Jocelyn,
I have not experienced as you described it but I have seen what Volker has described when new horses have grazed our mountain (and they eat from an area our lot avoid). Equally I had the tying up episode (with mild drooling) with the new OTTB which was a combination of diet change (bucket feed) and wet winter grazing after a hot spell. So in Volkers case I would watch them carefully and moniter where they are eating and what the weather is doing.
I just did a quick google and came up with this article which links to fungus/ulcers:
http://www.ruralheritage.com/messageboard/virtualvet/391.htm

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:58 pm
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Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Here is a slightly more comprehensive article on slobbers:
http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_slobbers.htm

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Location: Quebec, Canada
Isn't the internet fascinating!!! Thank you all for this information. It is so interesting (even if it's not my horse).
I asked the owner if she noticed when this would happen.
There are 3 reasons:
1) when the farrier comes. For whatever reason, he nibbles on the foot stool
2) when she places the bit in his mouth
3) when he had to wait for his feed (he was the last to be fed where he was before).

Since he is a TB, I assume it has to do with a nervous issue. She does believe he may have ulcers (me too) but he has not been checked yet.

At first I thought it had to do with the clovers since I noticed that there is quite alot this time of season but Magik has no problem and he used to salivate where he was before. So I don't believe this would be the reason.

So I'll investigate further but I have so much information that I think we can act accordingly to find out the exact cause.

Thank you all!! :kiss:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Thank you Annette! Clover can be found in our pasture at certain spots. That could be indeed the culprit! Then again, it's only Lily who shows this symptoms... Hmmm...

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:52 pm 

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Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Well I hope you can find the culprit. What I've seen with our lot is the new horses are the ones that seem to get mild slobbers/mild colic or tying up and a general look of not being 100%. Some seem to have problems tolerating the different types of grazing and others (especially those not allowed/or accepted straight away to graze with the others) eat from different areas. Sometimes they just don't know not to eat a particular plant or type of grass as they have not seen (smelt?) it before. Of course hungry horses and especially those that are bucket fed with little else to munch in between tend to be less discriminate about the grazing they eat. So even after all this time of knowing our areas and grazing, it is impossible to tell which horses will have issues and which won't until we see visible signs and then have to figure out whether it's just a case of them slowly tolerating the change or whether they are in danger of poisoning themselves seriously.
The weather (and drastic or unseasonal changes) can bring fungus growth to a dangerous level that previously was okay and new toxins or new plants suddenly appear that we have not seen. Sometimes we hear of mysterious poison type illness in the region and so are just extra cautious to watch the horses more carefully and keep them on the "safe" areas. In my experience, most of these types of (plant) poisoning if caught early enough can be treated by tubing with a vet but it is important to get a vet early as some toxins travel and the hind limbs start to tremble and clear gait problems develop at a walk, or the colic becomes worse. I have seen horses recover very quickly (a few hours) and others take a day or two. Some with vet assistance and others removed and contained and recovered on their own. Some never do it again, others really need to be restricted at all costs from access to the plant. Of course removal of the offending plant is key, but sometimes we are not aware we have it, or it's been there all along and no other horse has touched it!
So maybe Lily will figure out it's not a good idea to eat from that patch or you can find an area where she doesn't have the offending clover, or in time the weather might solve the fungus issue. I know you won't stress as I know you keep a good eye on both horses and will spot something should it become a problem.
My trimmer is a great source of knowledge regarding plant types and seasonal changes regarding problem plants in various regions. He gets to see feet of all the local horses and gets to hear about grazing issues, so if you want to have a head start on what to look for, you might ask your trimmer or failing that other horse owners in the area.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:58 pm
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Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Jocelyn,
Thinking about it more, I wonder if Dreamer isn't reacting due to stress. I realise he is now living out and has grazing 24/7, but wonder if he has ulcers and percieves the farrier/leading owner as "work related" stress and why he licks the whole time. Licking repeatedly and at things (walls/poles etc) seems to me to be a stress behaviour similar to weaving or crib biting (which is also linked to ulcers and lack of buffering, ie 24 fodder chewing). We had one mare who would literally bite her own reins when being girthed (she had ulcers and a sore back...now fixed). Dreamer has moved stables/field mates, possibly had drugs in his past for the knee issue? and possibly spent time without access to 24 eating?
So I'm guess this behaviour might disappear over time as long as he is out grazing, settled and has no percieved work stress.........
Here is an interesting q and a about ulcers in horses:
http://www.prognutrition.com/libraryulcers.html

It might shed some light to watch his behaviour and see when and why he does it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:44 am 
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I completely agree it's stress-related. I'll introduce the farrier tools more and more and see if he reacts to the tools or to the person.
The owner doesn't ride him so maybe I'll ask her to just show me the bridle and see how he reacts.

Thanks for the help and your feedback.

Jocelyne

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:17 am 
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Just wanted to update on this topic. The farrier did trim Dreamer's feet last month and no salivation. So I think it must be when she worked him so the farrier could see Dreamer's movements. I believe Dreamer thought he was preparing for a competition so he was stressed. I even let him smell the stand and he didn't pick it up with his teeth like he did the first time.

I forgot to mention this to his owner. So I believe it really has nothing to do with the farrier but rather being worked.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:58 pm
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Location: Western Cape, South Africa
Well at least the farrier is not in any danger of drowning any more....lol..... :D
It's good he didn't do it on the last visit. Has he been salivating at any other time that you noticed?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:37 am 
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Quote:
Has he been salivating at any other time that you noticed?


No, that was the only time I noticed and it was pretty bad. But he hasn't been worked here either. So I think that explains it.

Strange that I had a huge issue of salivation with Magik not too long ago but we know it was either from an allergic reaction of barium, a product the equine hospital used to do their x-ray of the digestive system or the stress related to trailer loading (I don't believe this because he got in without a halter, no problem whatsoever).

Could be the stress of traveling, who knows???

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Jocelyne
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:40 am 

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Location: Western Cape, South Africa
It was probably the stress of what they needed to do to him whilst he was there. I don't think any horse would be unstressed in a strange environment with strange people doing medical intervention :ieks:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:42 am 
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horsefever wrote:
I believe Dreamer thought he was preparing for a competition so he was stressed.
Wow - a Pavlovian horse in the most direct sense :ieks:

I can also update on Lily's salivation status. She has completely stopped since we had the dentist do her teeth this summer.

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