The Art of Natural Dressage

Something started wondering in my mind the past months: if you look at NH the one thing all methods have in commmon, is control over the horse. Not only from the saddle (as in the past, when riding), but also from the ground in the shape of groundwork.

The idea is that the horse should always do what we tell him to, because otherwise he will become dominant and we will suffer a horrible death. Or at least something that's so awful that it is never really explained by most trainers.

However, if you look at a herd, you see that no horse is always in control every minute. Horses graze, sleep and play together (breaking all the rules of 'dominance'as we have learned!)and sometimes get reprimanded when they make a mistake. Control seems to be such a minor issue amongst horses - so why is it such a big issue amongst horses and humans?


The thoughts I've been having on that subject, is that control is such a big part of NH training, because it might be a substitute for what most of the people don't have in their lives. Or, from a different angle: it provides 'controlfreaks' (everybody knows the feeling that the world will collapse when they make a mistake...) with the control that they don't have in reality - and will never have in their life either because such an amount of control simply doesn't exist. Life is unpredictable. You can fight it and try to control it - as in controlling the horse, telling him that he should do exactly as you say, whenever you say it and that ''no' simlpy isn't an answer. And that probably is the easy way too, because that way you don't have to change yourself, only your horse.

This is just an answer I've come up with the past months, when comparing modern society with the NH-scene, but I'm interested in how you see this: are (a lot of) nh-methods tailor-made for letting people believe that they can control everything - instead of learning them to turn inwards for some soulsearching on how you really see your life?

I walk around with the same heavy thoughts on my mind...
But I have this 'problem' for a much longer time.

Currently I am taking lessons from a wonderful instructor in long lining and riding on the BB and the VC.
And the longer I think about it, the more stupid it seems to me that I am fastening leather around some one's head and 'tell him what to do'.

I see that it does Owen's body good... that is afterall why I am doing this... but thinking about it makes me feel really strange... should I really be doing this? Is this not a really idiotic thing to do?

Gladly, Owen does not take any 'shit' so, where I going to far in some way concerning Owen he would let me know right away. (and how...)

But still... is he not granting me to much?

Are all horses not granting us to much?

Ralph is simpel... he says: stop riding and training all together if you have doubts being in your right here.
But when I do not train the horses, they really ask for it, they enjoy it.
But then again, what do they know about not being a human's horse?
Of course within our trainings, they are entitled to say 'no'.

What is fait to ask of horses and what is not?
I still have not got this set in my mind yet.

But would I do know is that this [the way horses are handled being it NH or some other way] is indeed a direct result from this society.
There is not a lot of soulsearching going on anymore is there?

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www.equusuniversalis.com

Miriam, that are such interesting thoughts! i think about it often as well, we humans always want control and when we don´t have it we fake it.

I think that often happens in NH methods. I don´t think we can "control" a horse in a way we supress his feelings, we can't play the boss since the horse is just stronger, faster and bigger than us. But in many NH methods people just tell themself they need to control and they think they have control while they actually don't have. Their horse "escapes" from this control as soon as he gets the chance.

Donald also talked about this in his clinic and he made me realize control by force brings me nowhere. I have to let go of all ideas of control, that is the only way I may get a little bit of it!

I noticed that it makes no sense to ask forced control of Amiro, but I don't know about other horses. When I was still riding him with a bit and we went outside everything went well, until the moment Amiro wanted to go home: He turned around and ran back home. I could pull, yell, hit, or do anything else but I could not stop him. The only way to stop him was sitting back and just waiting and hoping him to stop. And at that moment I should have realized I could only stop Amiro by not trying to control him.

But still, I don't know exactly what it is abut contol that we all want it so badly. Chris Irwin talked a lot about control at the NH day and even in his books I saw the word explained. Control is something we all want in the end I think. As Josepha once wrote somewhere: We want our horse to want what we want and not only do what we want. I agree with it, but don't know exactly how important control is then...

Very difficult subject, but very interesting as well!

Well...I am in control of my horses' fates. This I am sure of. I am the keeper of their lives. I will NOT dwell on whether or not I should train or ride my horses. I choose to do it, and therefore it is my responsibility to make it as enjoyable and beneficial for them as possible. There is always a line. One has to draw it for themselves.

It is the same as the (Buddhist?) thought of doing no harm to any creature. I feel I do not, for the most part, and yet, I have no trouble at all in killing a mosquito that is biting me (or even before they bite me) or a fly that got in the house that wishes to share my food. I will not share my food with a creature that wants to vomit on it before it eats it. I am too lazy to catch it and release it outdoors. So I kill it and vaccuum it up. I drew my own line. On one side is killing flies. On the OTHER is training and riding my horse. The line is pretty firm!

I have let go of certain aspects of NHE. I am not an extremist. But I am responsible and I am kind. I am a good person and I will not let my NHE experience make me feel otherwise. So I seek the most beneficial way for my "partnership" with my horses in whatever way I can that works for ME.

This weekend, at the clinic, I told someone that I now feel that NHE is almost a cult in a way. You go there and you are brainwashed to some extent. I don't think it is intentional, but it functions quite naively in the same way a real cult functions deliberately. You are ushered in with kindness...you are made to feel at home. Then you are made to feel that is the ONLY home you have...that where you come from is bad, only in NHE can you find love, acceptance and salvation! I was almost sucked in to a place I couldn't remove myself from. It's sounds a bit dramatic, but it's true....and it is so true that I have trouble letting go of some aspects of it. Especially the part of riding only in full collection and only for a few minutes at a time. Why is it that I know countless horses that are ridden on trail rides and they never have sore backs? They are loved, they are cherished, they are well treated...Cheryl rides her horses...can you look at that video and tell me that cam doesn't like to be with her? That she hurts him? They have a beautiful partnership of kindness a love...and it obviously works both ways. Cam is in love with Cheryl as much as she loves him.

One of the most difficult things for me to remove from my mind, in the wake of my time at NHE, is that I am harming Cisco by riding him while we learn to collect together. As one fellow I didn't even know put it, "It's time to let go and move on, girlfriend". (Yes, he really said that! LOL!)

So I am (moving on). I did. My goal is to achieve collection in a way that is both fun for me and beneficial for Cisco (and Tam, of course). I will be vigilant, always, for any discomfort I may cause and I will always strive to not cause any. I will not force my horse, I will not beat my horse. I will not pull and kick and try to make him do anything. Not only because I am kind, but also because I know this is not the way to achieve what I want - a partnership with a horse that will work hard, and still enjoy being with me. I learned so much this weekend, and some of it was taught to me by Cisco, and not the instructor. But the instructor, Paul, made it clear that collection can be gained in a way that is not only kind to the horse, but that makes him feel good (endorphins), so why would he NOT want to collect? With gentle hands and a proper progression, you get collection. Once you have a horse that is in self carriage, and enjoying it, you then have the ability and time to focus on your riding...gaining better balance, a better seat. I touched this place with Cisco this weekend. He carried himself, round and happy while I let go of any contact on the reins, and I could then think about where my balance was, how still were my legs, were my back and shoulders correctly held? It was a wonderful moment (among many this weekend). We were both learning together and we were both enjoying the experience.

There is not a person on this forum I think, that means any harm to a horse. We all enjoy riding. So instead of focusing on whether we should ride or not, use a headstall or not, why not enjoy the opportunity to be taught by a horse, how to teach a horse? Does that make sense?

And not all NH folks are control freaks. Ask Cheryl if she is one? I think not. She and Cam and Breeze play together, learn together and grow together. They practice Parelli, do they not? Cheryl rides. I see happy, healthy horses who needs are met while she enjoys learning with them.

So Miriam....let go of the dark thoughts and enjoy learning. It is ok to train a horse. It is ok to ride a horse. It's ok to put a halter on a horse if that helps clarify the communication between you. Better communication leads to a happier, more relaxed horse. If it's done with kindness, and as Paul says, "In the way of the horse", that is, that you strive for mutual understanding in a way the horse can understand quickly, and your goal is also to have the horse feel as good as you do, then where is the darkness? There isn't any.

This weekend, after watching me take part in the clinic with Cisco, a young lady asked me what it was like to have a horse that you could do everything with (Cisco was amazing this past weekend - report to come!). I just smiled really big, and told her I was blessed. Period. I am blessed to have this horse cross my path and take the time and energy and sacrifice that it took to get me to even begin to understand what it takes to capture a horses' heart...and I'm not even sure I'm quite there yet, but the closer we get, the more he gives me and the more he amazes me. And to think that NHE almost had me thinking that he wasn't capable of any of this, and that I was evil for even trying.

I don't even want to control my horse, when I'm controlling my horse, the fun is gone. I have a very funny horse, we are having most fun when he is just free, free to play and to crazy things. Of course their always have to be a sertain rules, for safty. But when he is in a save area he may play, without control.

Wow, interesting responses!

First of all to Karen: I hope it didn't look as if I was judging anyone for riding or training or anything. That's the idea I got from your reply, and that certainly isn't my plan!

I don't have any dark thoughts either (the weather is too sunny for that over here! ). You don't have to be gloomy to do a little soul-searching.

What I was musing about, is the change I saw in especially Blacky since the last half year - since I started asking myself what exactly my goals were in training - what I wanted to 'get' out of it. When I did that I noticed two things:

1.
I was always taught to get a response after a cue of mine. So if you cue and nothing happens (and there isn't something horribly wrong with your horse), you repeat the cue untill you get the response and reward for that.

2.
I felt horrible when Blacky or Sjors walked away from me during a training to do something else, and tried to be very interesting by making up lots of different exercises to keep them occupied.

Both things puzzled me. Because for some reason apparently I emotionally felt the need to always get a positive reply from the pony (answering to my cue), and felt very bad when he didn't (didn't give the right reply, or even walked away to sniff some poop ). I began to realise that if I had a problem with that (which I didn't really), that problem would lie with me and me alone, not with our training or the ponies. If I needed the pony's to do certain things, give certain reactions in order to feel content or happy, that would mean that my self-esteem wasn't really as high as I thought it was - and that I didn't love myself and the pony's as unconditionally as I thought I did. Because unconditional love above all means that it's not about what you do, but about what you are, and apparently what both I and the ponies did was very important for how I felt. And apparently I tried to control my self-esteem (good exercises means happy Miriam ) by controlling the ponies and our training.

So about six months ago I decided to not so much change our training (as the ponies already were working at liberty, for treats and did collection because they wanted to), but most of all my attitude. First of all, when I asked a certain movement and the pony didn't respond, I would go and do something else with him - or without him. The pony clearly had decided not to get a reward for that exercise, so I should see that as his decision, not my failure. Second: if a pony walked away during training (which is quite normal actually, as we often play for 45 minutes to an hour), I would walk away too and start doing something to enjoy myself.

The funny thing is that even though our training didn't really change that much, Blacky did - very much! Before he was coming along nicely, doing his things and offering collection. But most of the time he seemed to be waiting for me to cue him, and always paused for a second before he responded to my cues. When I think back, I realise that that wasn't because he was lazy, but because it was a very subtle hint of passive aggression: he knew very well that I would continue to cue him untill I got the movement I wanted, so that his input actually wasn't that big, and that therefore he wasn't going to get very enthusiastic about it either. Blacky is very good at subtle hints, and I'm very bad at picking them up I'm afraid. He also always walked away during training a couple of times to sniff at the fence or doing something very annoying - and when I look back now, I realise that he did that because it didn't really matter: I would follow him anyway to try to get him involved again. Instead of deciding 'That's a great idea Blacky, there's plenty things to do out here on my own anyway, great suggestion!' and enjoying being on my own in a paddock with a pony.

For Blacky me not demanding control, not following him and instead having a little more self-worth definately meant a big change. He almost never leaves me during training again, because he knows I will start to have fun without him - which is even worse. He also has become much more enthusiastic and also more energetic. It's hard to keep him in a regular walk or halt nowadays because all he wants to do is show off, invent movements and do crazy things. And he really gets annoyed with the fact the when he doesn't do something, the consequences aren't delivered by me (blaming him, cueing again or giving negative attention in whatever way - and by that taking away the attention from his decision but instead focussing it on me in the shape of the annoying girl) - but that he only has himself to blame as I will go on having fun on my own, or with him in another exercise.

I'm convinced that not every horse will provide that same, very subtle mirror as Blacky does. Sjors for example doesn't, even though he is a little more relaxed than before (not having me repeating cues and walking after him when he left seems to have lifted some burden too though ). And I've also been through a lot more with Blacky than with Sjors and have had Blacky longer, which means that we have influenced each other much more. But for me it was really interesting and I think also important to find out where my need for control came from - why I felt the need to reach certain results. And it's also clear to me that I couldn't have changed and improved our playing together by just adapting my behavior - I really needed to understand my emotions behind it in order to see what caused these needs.

So, that's me in a nutshell. And since then I've seen that in a lot of other horsepeople during my clinics too. For some reason we seem to have a need to prove something to ourselves through our horses. The 'IIf I can only get the piaffe right, I will be happy' idea that has been slumbering in my mind the past decade or so. While in fact the piaffe doesn't have a 'happy'-sideeffect at all. It's just a movement. But it was me projecting my happiness onto something that was without my reach. So if I would have reached the piaffe in that state of mind, I would probably not have thought: 'Hey, I feel soo good! Now I'm blessed forever with joy!' - but more something in the line of 'Great, we have a piaffe! Now if we could only get that passage fixed, I would be really happy...' Because apparently I wasn't longing for a specific movement a horse can do, but more for a rationalisation why I didn't feel as happy as I could be. It must be not having that piaffe! Sure...

By the way: Don't feel like I was suffering from severe mental ilnesses and depressions! It was more a very slight nagging in my mind every now and again, having trained and not feeling completely satisfied, feeling a pang of hurt when a pony walked away, just tiny things, tiny dots that seemed to form a bigger picture of seeking control in order to make up for a certain emotional need. And probably there are lots of sane people on this forum too who think this just sounds really weird, so please do skip this post - but maybe some recognize things, or see things in a different way. All I can say is that before I was very content with the ponies before, during and after or playsessions. Now I'm simply totally, blissfully happy, whatever went right or wrong during our exercises. Because it just doesn't matter anymore, my feelings about myself don't depend on the outcome anymore. Just being with the pony's. playing and experimenting with them is all I need, the rest is air. For me that difference between being very content and extremely happy was very small, but gigantic.

Dear Karen, I agree with you in so many points.

Concerning NHE: if I did not know that there are people here who feel bad when I write something non-positive about it, I would have to write so much about the way they can make you feel. I would need to talk about it to relieve myself a little bit more, but I won´t, because I do not want others to feel like I felt there and so I try very hard to keep my critical thoughts to myself. I just want you to know that I feel very much the same way like you, without commenting further on it.

About control:

I think that we NEED to control our horses to some extent. We have decided to keep them and most of us can´t offer to them a natural environment. So we have to make sure that they are safe in our environment. In a herd, horses don´t need to control each other that much. They are not responsible that another horse doesn´t get hit by a car for example. But I do have this resposibility. So in some situations my horse can´t choose and has to do certain things. Of course I always ask him if he wants to leave the road when a car is approaching. But if he would answer “no”, I would have to decide against his will.

But I also agree with Miriam that there are many people who seem to feel a strange need to control every tiny little bit. Maybe this has to do with our society and culture. Contrary to Asian cultures where the image of the self is interdependent (me as a part in a big whole), in western societies an independent self is more common. The person doesn´t try to be conform and fit well with the others, but tries to be something special and unique (there are so many funny experiments on this, by the way…). For me, the logical result if I want to be a part in the big picture would be to control myself, whereas in the second scenario it would be the easiest way to control the environment, instead. If I need to be independent and strong, it might work best not to let my environment be too strong – so controlling it is more necessary. It would be sooo interesting to know how Asian people get along with their horses and if there is a difference in the amount of control.

I think that my task is to find a good balance between controlling myself, controlling my horse and leaving away the control.

Very interesting thought about eastern and western culture, Romy!

Just to be sure: I'm completely with Karen and Romy when it comes to control being necessary at certain times: I also control the ponies when walking outside the paddock, over the street, when a hooftrimmer has his head hanging next to their hooves and in a lot of other occasions - But not when training.

For me training - in a fenced, completely safe environment - is not about control or about getting some replies, reactions or movements and I don't want to control them either. If the ponies feel like showing them I'll try to shape them into better postures and movements, but I'm not going to say: 'now we should trot, bow, rear' - and cue them untill they do it.

So I'm not in control of the ponies during the training - I can take control whenever I want to of course, but I will only do so when things get unsafe. And then is only when they start fighting together next to me, or bump into me or bite, and they don't do that (except for the first sometimes ). I only take control when I'm forced to, not when I want to do an exercise. For me that's become a big difference in training, and also a clear concept of when to be in controle, and when not. But everybody has to discover his/her own balance, and that might be very different from mine!

This is exactly the kind of thing I was wondering when I posted here some time ago I'm letting Evita pick her own exercises. I think its fun and good in the sense of a "workout" to develop movements together but after this when a horse feels comfortable, I would let the horse decide 'if' and 'what' is practiced.
The degree of guidance is different with every horse but I think it's needed to be aware of the degree of "control", "wanting" and "ego" is involved. Guidance needs to be about the horses needs and not about your own.
I now need to have Evita's belly muscles trained because this will benefit her welbeeing. So when I clearly ask somthing of her, for instance I'm lunging now, I see myself as her fitness instructor. If I go to the gym I may not like the exercises so much but know why I do them. If a horse does not already see the benefit of certain exercises its a shame but eventually they will benefit. The same with Evita hating the dentist, it needs to be done although she does not see this herself. In this case I decide because I'm the one with better knowledge on this on the long run.

So Josepha, see yourself as a fitnessinstructor (is not so hard for you ) and know Owen will eventually benefit from the exercises you teach him. You know the fine line within pressuring and asking.

Control to my opinion comes out of fear, fear of the unknown, fear of hurting your ego, fear of pain. People think they have less chance to experience this when they feel in control. People who have trust in situations do not feel the need so much in control. I totally trust Evita so I never feel the need of control. With Imperia the trust is not yet 100% so sometimes I grab a rope to have a feeling of control (although I never use it ).

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True.
But... I never tied leather around the heads of my human fitness students... I was perfectly able to explain 'hands on' only and of course giving example.
With Owen, somehow that does not work (anymore).
Granted, he is from an other specie... but still, I am again painfully aware of my own shortcomings.

The beauty? He loves me still and lets me plunder on untill I get it right some day

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www.equusuniversalis.com

Well ofcourse you maybe need leather to guide but don't beat yourself up about it!

Yesterday I tried to have Evita walk shoulder in with my cavesson.... she refused... I took the cavesson off and I got a nice shouder in
But with lunging I needed to put the cavesson on with the lungeline, to her this is "lunging". When I try to let her walk circles without a cavesson she sees this as "chasing her away".
She really liked the lunging again by the way!!!! She seemed to enjoy it more than running freely next to me in circles so you never can fill in before what they like more and if they really dislike having leather around.

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so how is that suppose to make me feel better?

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www.equusuniversalis.com

I agree with this!

Miriam, I don't know why I read your post the first time, giving me more of a dark brooding feeling? Sorry. Your second post made it all very understandable!

I don't like to be quite so careful about what word I use - guidance or control. In either case, I control. I know for myself, I don't do it in an egotistical way, and I am doing things that I think (I hope) benefit the horse. This is why I am now studying and learning this more classical way of training...because I do see it as strengthening the horse, both mentally and physically. But I do control what we do, and when, in many cases. We still do liberty stuff, and we will always play with anything freely offered. So in some cases the horses decide what we do, but in other cases, I decide. If Cisco is in a mood of quiet reflection and does not seem to have energy, I do not ask energetic things of him. I do not demand, but I do ask. I also mold things he already knows how to do, hopefully into an even better, more gymnastic thing.

So where I am not exactly a control freak, I can't truely say that I don't control the session. I use a halter or the bitless bridle for some things, because Cisco undertands them better with that equipment. Somethings require the cordeo. Some things can be done at liberty. Some things require a clicker and treats. Some things require a verbal praise (and treats).

Cisco needs to bear with me while I learn how to do all this. So in a way, he teaches me as much as I teach him. But does he "need" to learn this? Well, no. Likely not. So it is probably more my need (or want) than his. He would be just as happy to spend his life in the pasture, grazing. But he is healthier and much more fit, because of what I ask him to do. He didn't ask me to make him fit and healthy...it was still ME who decided that for his own sake, he should be.

So THAT (control, no control) line is rather thin and straggly and tends to look a bit faint at times.

I am really a very big control freak in life and Atreyu I could not control... so I have learned to trust... this was very hard and a real eye opener. If I conrol myself I can be a solid rock to Atreyu, this means she can be in control of herself and not be as scared and nervous as she was.

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My two cents on why people control horses- Fear. I trim for a lot of people terrified of their horses. The ones with the chains and whips, telling me to beat the horse if he is bad, they are the most scared. So they control the horse, to control what scares them. Of course not all control with pain, so do it with love. You can't really control with love, but they think they can. I have a few clients like this. You can tell them by the horses that charge at you biting. They tend to have a very NHE-ish kind of control. But there is no balance there, no leadership, trust, or communication. Only fear and love. And very confused horses.

I shouldn't talk, I am scared of people. If there was a "People control program" I'd be the first in line, even if it involved wrapping leather around their heads. I don't understand them, how they think, what they do, why they do it. I don't get it. So I am scared of them. Horses I understand. Dogs I understand. I'm not scared of a Rottwieler because I know why he bites. I never understand why people bite. But then I spend a lot of time with dogs and horses, studing them, understanding them. Talking to them. If I spent half that time with people I might understand them too. And if they spent half their time talking to their horses, they wouldn't need whips and chains.

Fear creates the need to control, but the more control you have, the more you need, and the more you need the more you fear loosing it. So simply giving up control will eliminate a lot of fear.

But I still shouldn't be talking. I am scared of roller coasters and airplanes. I am not scared of not being in control, I'm scared of not being able to get away. The fear of falling from an airplane is nothing to the fear of being trapped in one. I'm a mild claustrophobic, I can't stand to not be able to get away. I am safe in the woods. Better to be mauled by a bear then trapped in a house. And all the better to have my horse and my dog with me.

To over-analize just a bit farther, I am still being scared. I have my horse for the speed to run away, my dog for protection. So I am totally safe, calm and relaxed with my horse and my dog in the woods. It's that feeling that I imagine everybody wants. What drives them to have fancy alarm systems and super-strong cars, and body guards. To try and find, force, or buy absolute control. But then what I don't understand. Why have a horse? If it scares you, why have one? If you need to inflict pain in order to feel remotely safe, why be around them? Why not have a dirt bike and enjoy yourself? You are destroying yourself and the horse. This I don't understand at all. I would never buy myself a roller coaster.

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If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys.