The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:36 pm 
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Location: Belgium
Hello April, how are you?

I am sorry to answer you so late but I was busy in an other topic for put many pictures :D

Yes I did watch the video when you put the horse in the trailer. The thing I am curios to know is did you know the horse before or was it the frist time you handled him?

I am sorry for my bad english, and maybe I don't use the correct words (I cannot know)

"I think what also happens is when we are trying to understand where the animals are coming from, they also come into our world. We may show them something and they will say "yes, that's it" because it's similiar to what they were trying to explain.

Our minds are little and when the mind gets in the way, the animals try their best to compare to something that we recognize. It's us that have limitations not the animals." I am completly agree with you!

"
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I know that everything is energy. But animals do understand words, and some animals have a very high vocabulary."
So do you mean yours horses speak english?
Coz actually my horse knows some words but because I've learned to him these words I wannted him to understand then my horse understand a bit of french, english and spanish, wouaw 8)
But if could read in his thinking I don't know in wich langage he would speak to me...
Do you understand why I think it is transmission of energy?

_________________
"Training a horse is not only gaining his submission as it is often said.
It is also making sure the horse takes pleasure in doing everything that is asked of him"
Nuno Oliveira

http://myspace.com/alexandracmoa


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:47 pm 
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I also had an other experience; I went to Australia last year for one year. When I arrived there I couldn't speak any english (nothing!!! I've never learned english before) and people couldn't speak to me french, I wanted to learn and I really wanted to understand people, I had to do lots of efforts. I met a horsemanship, she wanted me to work her horses because she didn't have time, she gave me 2 or 3 lessons of her method, but I was in Australia for only one month and my english was too poor for understand her, when she teached me knew everything she wanted me to do, and did all what she told me to do without I understand english. I think she was a very good horsmanship and she sent me her energy or it was something else, but it was something I could feel.
Do you see what I mean?

_________________
"Training a horse is not only gaining his submission as it is often said.

It is also making sure the horse takes pleasure in doing everything that is asked of him"

Nuno Oliveira



http://myspace.com/alexandracmoa


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:28 am
Posts: 178
I totally agree with the engery and sending pictures. To even try to understand this, will only cause me to go crazy. We only use 10% of our brains. What these animals are really capable of really blows my mind.

The trailer loading, it was our 3rd sesion together.

April

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Horse's idea becomes your Idea...

April


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:42 am 
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When I did animal communication during a course, pictures came, feelings, images but words also, in Flemish.
For instance, I saw me eating hay and coughing, I felt like have a bit and disliking the cold metal pressing against all the sensitive spots in my mouth, especially the way the snaffle pinched and gagged me.
I felled lonely and bored, did not like the other horses and I longed for grass, which was there, but I could not reach and I wondered why.

I never met the horse I was connecting with but according to the owner who was sitting across me, I was spot on... I was astonished.
But as Miriam said, when I try this at home, it is so exhausting and I can not clear my mind as I could at that course center.

What I wanted to say is, that everything gets translated somehow.
Like when I say something to my animals, they just hear me blebbing, but if I say something with feeling, they understand, I know they understand for they act accordingly.

For instance: I scretch itchy Owen, but my arm got lame, so I said: 'oh, I can do this no more, if you are still itchy go and roll...' he looked at me, walked away... and rolled!

When I was a child we were in Greece for we have family there.
I played with the greek children... I did not speek greek, not a word, but we understood perfectly!

One time, my greek cousin was sitting in the kitchen with me and my mother. He ask something and she did not understand.
I said: 'he wants a sandwich with chocolate paste.'
She said: 'how do you know?' she did not believe me.
Then my auntie came in. My mother said: 'what is he saying?'
Auntie: 'oh, he wants a sandwich with chocolate paste.'

My mother looked at me, awestruck.

Later, when we went to Greece for the third time I became 12. I had learned that I was not supposed to understand greek... and I did not anymore, nor did my cousin understand me in our own laguages... for then of course we spoke english together... but we had less understanding then ever...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:00 am 
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April wrote:
alexandracmoi wrote:
Yeah, I just went to visit your website.


Did you see the trailer loading video?


http://www.understandingyourhorse.com/index_files/Page1187.htm


Excellent!

You two remind me so much of Biko and Silke Valentin... but you two barely met.

One time, when you both examine the car, he looks hopefully at the door, maybe it would open and he would not have to face the difficult task at hand?

But for the rest, he really trusts you. He seems to say, I really do not want to do this, but if you really think it is neccesary and safe... okay, I'll have a go at it :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:28 am
Posts: 178
Quote:
Later, when we went to Greece for the third time I became 12. I had learned that I was not supposed to understand greek... and I did not anymore, nor did my cousin understand me in our own laguages... for then of course we spoke english together... but we had less understanding then ever...


This is so sad, but this is what many people will do. We put limitations on everyone and on ourselves. The hardest part will be to reopen those possiblilites.

My mom was told that she couldn't talk to animals,when she was a little girl, but she knew she could. Over time being told again and again those doors closed. I'm trying to help her to reopen them, but I know that fear is in the way. She does talk to them, out loud, and she'll explain to the animals what the lesson is all about, before she starts it.

She is also helping me to trust more in what I hear, see and feel....

April

_________________
Horse's idea becomes your Idea...

April


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:57 pm
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Location: Belgium
It is really intresting to hear that, you open my curiosity :shock:

I understand better now.
I remember a book I red, the writer told the same feeling. It's hard to belive when you never had this feeling before but it is so intresting :) Or maybe yes but that was unconsciously then.

That's right that we use only 10% of our head, I would be curious to know what we could do if we could use the totality of our head, could we make objects moving?

I would like to have a course too for to understand better this kind of communication.
Now I remember something else, it was when I red the book (the writer is Henry Blake) I tried to communcate by thinking to my horse, I wanted to learn to him the sit. I enjoyed the moment when he was rolling, I really wanted him sitting, just before to stand up, I sent to him a picture with a lot of my energy (like Henry Blake tell in his book), it was very missy in head, and for a short moment he sited up. But I did it only once and I couldn't do it again. I wasn't really confident, how can you know the difference between your imagination and the realty in this kind of moment.
But I think yes it is possible.

I remember something else, I have worked for one year in a dressage stable, and I was the lonely worker for 15 horses. I started every day at 6.30am and finish my day never before 8.30pm. With sometime no time to have a lunch, I tell you that because that was a really important moment for me. That was the moment where I've really learned to live with horses, I really appreciate to be with them. They never juge me. I remember the moment when Syrius told to Manissa to take off the rug (I've put next to her door). Syrius did this kind of silly thing all the time but Manissa never. Syrius was front of Manissa in them box, Syrius was watching Manissa with a lot of insistance, and I saw Manissa tryed to look somewhere else and then she took the rug off. It was so funny.

Anybody wants to belive me when I tell this kind of experience. And I just forot it, but now I remember more of this kind of experience.

It is really intressting.

Do you think we can learn everything to a horse just by thinking?

_________________
"Training a horse is not only gaining his submission as it is often said.

It is also making sure the horse takes pleasure in doing everything that is asked of him"

Nuno Oliveira



http://myspace.com/alexandracmoa


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:19 pm 
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alexandracmoi wrote:
Do you think we can learn everything to a horse just by thinking?


I do not know, but I know from experience that the 'image in your head' is half of the training.

_________________
www.equusuniversalis.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:51 pm
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Location: Netherlands
Well, I feel that somehow it doesn't work like that. Because even when you can talk to someone, that doesn't necessarily mean that his reply will always be 'your whish is my command!'. ;)

It can very well be that if you really, really, really want your horse to sit in order for him to show you that he understands you, he will do so to prove this. But when you just want him to sit because you want him to sit, it might very well not get a reaction because it's just not important enough for both you and the horse.

It was like in the last clickertraining clinic we did: there was a woman with an arabian mare who really wanted to show her owner that she would do anything if only she was asked in a nice way. So when the owner wanted to try to teach her to kneel on one knee for the first time, the mare just totally went along with it and actually landed on her knee that first time the woman asked her to and held her leg with her hand - even though the mare did seem to think it was a bit scary. But she seemed to use this exercise to tell her owner something - I'm afraid that message didn't come acrosse, but even if it did it wouldn't mean that the horse would do the same tomorrow again. Because that first time the horse really felt the need to express herself, to communicate - after that the exercise probably will become just another exercise.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:36 pm
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Location: USA
It's not always a good thing though.If you want to talk to your horse, you have to be ready to get the negative feedback (which seems to come in much heavier then the positive). :roll: And horses are so strong in their emotions, sometimes if I am really listening to Brandy and hearing her scared or in pain, it's unbearable. Especially with Cody, pain or fear in him can just make you scream. I made the dentist stop immedietly with him, because *I* couldn't handle how upset he was. The horses at the rescue, they just make you cry. They can tear you up with one look. Or watching horses be trained by a *real* trainer, and you can feel that fear and pain and confusion. Once you make that conscious effort to feel everything, you can't just stop.

When I'm really trying to understand a horse, I'll breath with them for awhile. Just clear your head and breath in rythm for awhile. Even if the horse is through-the-roof scared, you have to feel it first. People say you can just stay calm and the horse will stay calm. But if you go ahead and feel the emotion, let everything in, you'll understand the horses view of what is wrong, feel how bad they really are scared. And then you can bring you back out of it, and the horse follows. I'm still trying to get better at it, but I've had some real cool times with it. The main thing is you have to stay with them the whole time, you can't just yank yourself back from being scared, you gotta bring the horse back with you. That's where I lost it to begin with. If the horse goes backward, you go backward too.

It really works with introducing scary new stuff, because you learn what is "will this eat me?" fear and what is "I'm gonna die right now!" fear. Which an amazing number of people don't know the differance in. If you never let the horse get worse then the first kind of fear, the trust comes really quick.

I even had one horse I worked, who was a total nuerotic mess, who decided she felt safer breathing with me. So SHE saught ME, she breathed after me, she mimiced me. Very awesome. Because suddenly cougars in the bushes weren't scary. And if she started to get scared she'd make a contious effort to come and stand and breath with me for a minute, then she was fine. I brought her a really long way, then somebody decided she wasn't hopeless after all, so she got passed to the next trainer, who beat her and forced her and I found out I couldn't do that anymore. I can't fix a horse and send them down the line. Not if I connect with them like that. I think sometimes it's one of those things like, 'Be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it.'

_________________
If you talk to the animals they will talk with you and you will know each other. If you do not talk to them you will not know them and what you do not know, you will fear. What one fears, one destroys.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:28 am
Posts: 178
Faith,

The way I work with horses is that I teach their owners how to understand their horse. It can still be quite frustrating, but I'm much happeier with this approach.

It is very heartening to hear about a horse that went back and still be mistreated.

April

_________________
Horse's idea becomes your Idea...

April


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:28 am
Posts: 178
I am able to shut off animals, which I have too, otherwise I would be worthless. I know I wouldn't be able to handle this world if I didn't. I can't save everyone, and I have told this to many animals.

There was a goldfish that wanted to come home with me and I had to say I was sorry. It hurts to say this, but I have to understand that there are my own limitations. The goldfish understood, but I do think about that fish and how I wish I could've taken him home with me.

When you tell the truth, it's amazing the feedback you get from these great brave animals. I don't think I can handle it, if I was in there shoes.

It's sad, but reality is what it is.

April

_________________
Horse's idea becomes your Idea...

April


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:46 am 
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Was the fish in a bowl all by himself?
That is so sad... they belong outside in a large stream or pound...

Like birds in a cage... I can not stand that either.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:25 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:28 am
Posts: 5
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Ohhhh I read this topic and realised it was ages back, but I just HAD to post! This is one topic very close to my heart and soul, as I believe in talking with my partners. Everything that has been said - feelings, images, talking clearly.

I have to share a recent conversation with our new family member, Sid. When I went to 'see' him at someones house, he was a nervous wreck, sooooooo scared that his lips were quivering.
He was talking frantically and all over the place. I walked him away a bit from all the people around and talk with him, soothing and calming him down. I expalined I wasnt going to hurt him nor force him to do anything, that he was a handsome man and a precious one at that.

A short while later, he gave approval for me to ride him.I felt very honoured at his trust. The people placed a bridle & bit on him. I mounted him and held the bridle on the buckle. I talked with him that I wasnt going to use it, not to fear. He threw his head up and down and grinded the bit. He told me not to worry about being on him either, I was safe, I could trust him to carry me.

We went through the paces for a little time. I talked with him and told him that if he chose to come with me and be part of our family, I would never put a bit in his mouth again.

He arrived at my home a few days later. He backed off the float and hugged me! I had tears in my eyes, the love and appreciation I could feel from this horse was just amazing! and overwhelming.He told me that he was 'home at last'.

I adore him. He adores me. We connect incredibly. h eis now playing with me and the other horses like a child again. Its a very priviledged honour to have this shared with me.

cheers
Deb

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On the apple isle from the land down under.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:31 am 
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beautiful... brings tears to my eyes...

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