The Art of Natural Dressage

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:15 am 
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Hello, (I'm really sorry if I posted this in the wrong place... but it's about connection I suppose)

Four years ago the icelandic mare of a friend of mine got her first foal... And they were so cute and happy together (as a real good mom) after 6 months though the foal had been drinking so much from his mom that mother couldn't have it anymore, so sort of natural the case was that the sweet foal got kicked out.

They decided to give him 3 to 4 years of freedom in an protected area which was hugh, had all sorts of land, trees, water and so forth where he would be in a group of 10 icelandic youngsters. Plus you could visit him any time you wanted (if you could find him in the area...)

But jeej! Two days ago, his time there was up! And he returned, they picked him up and the brought his mom so that he wouldn't have to stay alone on the trailer ride...

So far for background information. To say it short: after 3 to 4 years son returns to mother.

I watched them together when they had their playtime in the fields of grass, but I'm not sure.
To which extend to you think these horses really recognize each other?
They're walking together now, but the intention why they walk together is not really clear to me. Sometimes the mare just seems very very interested in her own son, as a potential partner, sometimes they just seem friends. I once had two mares reunited and I'm pretty sure they recognizes each other and really knew who's who, but in this case...

Can anyone tell me something more about it?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Of course horses recognise each other! :funny:
The same way humans do.

But in the case of mother and child, when the child is taken a way at a certain age and they are reunited only after many years, in which the child grew up and therefore changed a lot, it is possible that mother and child do not recognise each other.
And this goes for humans as much as horses.

Warm regards,

Just passing by busy Josepha

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:58 pm 
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Well, that was my thought also. Ofcourse they recognize each other! So I was searching for signs of that...

But she's only telling him she is very available for him, and she thinks he's hot.
Well ofcourse every mom loves her son... but in that specific way? Maybe it's just to much for him right now, new surroundings, smaller space, all new horses?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:30 pm 
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Indeed maybe that's the thing.. the mother looks the same but the son doesn't.. so maybe he sees it but she doesn't?
I also have seen horses recognize eachother after long times apart but in this case? I wonder about the same thing when my Unico will return to his mother Evita.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:08 pm 
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KDS, I think in this case, the mother does not recognise her child, as she simply just sees him as a unknown young man.

Would you recognise your son, if he was taken away as a baby, and then again see him when he is 24?

@ Bianca, I wonder the same thing, how long until his return?

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:12 pm 
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Well, he's becoming 2 in september... so I guess at the end of next year he will get a vasectomy (not castration) and return home :applause: but maybe in 2 years ... depends on how stallion he is (a possible danger to Atreyu or not and how Atreyu is doing at that moment, not that he will stay in the same field as her but in case he breaks through the fence in between) and how grown up he is. If he's still having fun with his friends and not ready or asking for training or whatsoever I'll maybe keep him there until he's 4. He's really doing great there with his little spanish macho friends :D

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:26 am 

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My mare was reunited with her daughter after a year and it was such an emotional reunion - to go back to the beginning- I bought the mom and six months later I was contacted by a lady who owned her before the person I bought her off - she had bred a foal who was 2 now and asked me if I would be interested in buying her, which I did.
On the day she was due to arrive I decided to let them get to know each other over the fence (the mom and 2 other horses which make up my little herd. )the three of them stood a the gate waiting all day until she arrived at 3.30pm, they wouldnt go off and graze they just stood all day - which was strange behaviour in itself - when she arrived the other 2 where very interested and introduced themselved but her mum was besides herself, she is normally a very alloof horse but I had to let her in with her girl I thought she would knock the fence down - she groomed her from top to tail and made very gentle carressing gestures with her head and neck and basically has not let her out of her sight since, if she strays too far away from her she calls her back and her baby always comes running, they have a very strong bond which is a joy to watch and really educational because I am seeing all kinds of body language between them I havn't seen before .

I tell as many people as i can about them because we need to be more mindful than we are about the devastation we can cause tearing families apart - well thats the way I see it :sad:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2009 11:23 pm 

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Well, I am pretty sure they recognise each other, but at the same time they are opposite sex also... :huh:
And I have known a young stallion of not even 2yrs old, chasing his mum when she was in heat.
He had not even left her before, so he knew she was his mum!

Hormones are always stronger than bloodlines, I'm afraid.
So that is something to take into account...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:02 am 
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That's why in the wild young stallions are send away from the herd and go live in a bachelor group, till they find their own herd.

I think that to a certain extent horses do recognize each other. But I try not to install to many human thoughts in horses, as they don't think like us and perceive the world from another perspective. This doesn't mean I'm a fan of seperating foals from their mother at the age of 3 months. I think foals need longer then that. At a certain point the mother will take more distance and maybe then its good to keep them seperated for a while.(for the mik production).

At our stables we've got a mother and son (castrated) in the same herd. After six months he was moved into another herd for a while and after a couple of months reunited again. The bond was still there and still is. More from his side then hers. He's very clingy and also jealous when other horses approach her. Very funny to watch :rofl:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:45 pm 

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I am sure horses recognise each other as individuals. My friend sent her mare to holiday with me whilst her yearling filly was weaned. Danny pony is the fillys Daddy and was soon wither rubbing, grazing nose to nose and chatting with his wife, whilst she updated him on their daughters progress.
He was previously brilliant with his eldest daughter Jasmine. When her Mummy had enough it was his turn to foal sit. Jasmine was not allowed to rudely put her muzzle in her mother's dinner bowl, but being a little girl, she flashed her eyes and could steal all from her Daddy.

They were separated for a while and several months later were joyful in reunion, although as a teenager/yearling, Jasmine was told to eat only from her own feed bowl, she was welcomed to close grazing and playing with no mating rituals or advances of that type, her Daddy knew exactly who she was.
Since Dan was gelded last year it is possible that number one daughter might come and stay if her owner needs a break, and I would be watching with interest to see if the recognition remains, but I see no reason to doubt it, beyond, "my, how you have grown up".

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:41 am 

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Its a good point, we humans are a bit guilty of accrediting human feelings and emotions to horses - but we are equally guilty of judging other animals as having no emotions at all :yes: In my experience horses are extreemly emotional animals and more capable than we give them credit for forming very close bonds and attatchments. Its true that once colts reach sexual maturity they have to leave the herd and form batcholer groups - but they stay on the periferies of the herd and are often watched closely by their mothers!

To illitrate the point of emptional bonds further - I watched a documentry not long ago (the name escapes me) following a herd of wild horses for several years, the stallion manages to 'steal' a mare from another young stallion who was just forming his herd, - for 2 years she tried to escape and get back to him but was prevented by the stallion, in the 3rd year she finally managed it and took her colt with her :cheers:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:24 pm 
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Roa wrote:
Quote:
Its a good point, we humans are a bit guilty of accrediting human feelings and emotions to horses - but we are equally guilty of judging other animals as having no emotions at all :yes: In my experience horses are extreemly emotional animals and more capable than we give them credit for forming very close bonds and attatchments.


Very true and I completely agree with that. Horses, as all animals have feelings and emotions. And are often more in touch with their feelings then we are. They don't pretend, it is what it is. But they don't think, reason and analyze as we do. They follow their instict, their nature.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:45 am 
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Quote:
But they don't think, reason and analyze as we do. They follow their instict, their nature.


This sparked a thought about an old thread...
In case anyone is interested in a rather far-out riff on horses and thinking and being:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2010&p=38250&hilit=myth+memory#p38250

:D
Leigh

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:41 am 
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Well, I'll give a short 'look back'on how the relation evolved from there.

Right now they're still in the same herd, quite often they're together but also often far apart. I miss the really strong connection between them. Though when 'foal' is in trouble (I mean... 'foal' he just turned four and is quite grown up... but still the youngest) mom would certainly come to help him. But it's not the strongest connection I've ever seen.
They have the same owner so they are quite often together on a walk outside the fence, but in the pasture... it's not as strong as the connection I heard in stories mentioned above...

Maybe there is a difference in bond between mother and son and mother and daughter also? I wouldn't know... I only have this mother and son experience for now....

Thanks for all the thoughts!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:56 pm 

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Havn't worked out how to put the quote in so I'll have to refere to names - (Leigh) really enjoyed reading the old posts about time, i have spent time with shamans who have a completley different rapport with time and space from the rest of us, they just see it as an illusion and can move through time and space because of it - can get very complex to explain but all have agreed that horses are able to understand the illusion, not sure how that relates to the topic - but I must say I have found horses to be able to reason very well and use logic too, I have found horses to be incredible learners if they feel its in their interest to be and possible feel that their wellbeing depends on it.
I truley believe that once we expand our awareness to encompass other dimentions and aspects of our reality we will discover that horses are infact quite advanced beings because of their ability to traverse and connect the worlds rather like shamans :smile:


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