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 Post subject: Rules on Posting
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:57 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 7:51 pm
Posts: 2055
Location: Netherlands
These rules are for every post that is written in this forum - both in topics as in PMs. Please help us moderating this forum by sending a PM/mail to one of the moderators if a post is not according to the rules.

Thanks for reading them!

The AND Moderators


A lot of forums work according to the idea 'if you post pictures, photo's or stories about you and your horses, then you can only blame yourself for being critisised about them' .

Over here we don't.

At AND, we hold the posters responsible for their posts. Even if something terrible happens in a video, then that doesn't give you the right to kick somebodies backside for that (except of course when it means kicking them out of the way of an approaching train or something like that ;) ). A post should not meant to ventilate anger or aggression or annoyance, but should be meant to help the person receiving it.

It's important to realise that what usually is understood as 'being critical' or 'just saying how it is', most of the time really means being unfair. You see 80% going well - but it's not perfect! - so you rush in to point out exactly what's wrong, forgetting to tell that actually these faults are very small as 80% is right.
If you're watching a video and just sum up everything that goes wrong, you're not helping. What would be helping, is pointing out the good stuff and give the rider the confidence and advice to become good in other parts too.

A similar thing goes for giving advice: you see something in a video that you don't agree with, and immediately write what the trainer should have done, and why, and why he's doing wrong now, and what he should do from now on to get it right. Forgetting that you probably don't know anything about the background, character, experience of this person and his horse, where he came from and what his goals are.
I once passed through an English forum where I read a topic in which someone had posted pictures of her riding her horse. She sat crooked in the saddle with her legs sticking out, working on travers and other high-level dressage movements. Immediately whole buckets of advice were poured out over her, ranging from 'You should sit straight, you're hindering your horse like this' to 'why on earth are you dabbling with such refined exercises when you don't even know the basics of a good seat?' and 'You should go back to the riding school and take a couple of months lessons on the seat on a lunge line, so you stop ruining your horse' to a whole range of stretching exercises she should do before she swung herself into the saddle in order not to hinder her horse. It turned out that she had a disease that had caused her spine to collapse in an S-shape to the side, meaning that she couldn't even straighten herself when standing on the ground. All that 'well-meant advice' really hurt her.

When you give advice, it's really good to keep in mind that you don't know anything about the poster. Maybe what she shows is only 30% right. Then of course you can bash her head for doing bad, but that won't help, especially not if she already struggled to rise to that level from 10%. Focus on what went well, and ask if she wants help in other sections too.

Also, it's good to keep in mind that the other poster isn't stupid. He or she probably does something for a reason (be it a good one or not), so most of the time advice like 'you should do a rising trot on your horse instead of sitting' is way off mark, because the poster probably is sitting for a specific reason that you don't know about. If you don't understand something, just ask a question about it (why do you sit during the trot all the time?). Don't jump to conclusions and think that the poster is an incompetent nincompoop. Sometimes they're not. 8)

Another thing to keep in mind is that because you don't know anything about the poster, you won't know what will help either. You can't write 'you should do this and that'. Instead, you can only write what you have experienced in a similar situation, what helped you in the past, what you have seen helping others. You need to put your advice into the right perspective: yours. That perspective should be visible in your posts, in order not to be very rude by looking like your knowledge overrules all that the poster knows and does.

A general guideline that you can use for giving your opinion or advice on something you see or read:
If you are interested/bothered/puzzled/intruigued by something you see, just ask a question about it. The answer will probably suprise you, and maybe can teach you something you didn't know too.
An added bonus is that it saves you from typing lots of unwanted advice - and the receiver from reading it! :funny: ;)

Miriam

© All rights reserved 2007-2009


Last edited by admin on Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:25 pm
Posts: 1348
Location: Minnesota, USA
That is an excellent, excellent post Miriam, and gives me things to think about. Could you perhaps make it a sticky?

_________________
"Do you give the horse his strength?"
~Job 39:19a

www.cambriahorsemanship.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:22 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:44 pm
Posts: 1937
Location: The Hague, Netherlands
I now see what Ralph has posted and it make me worried... I totally agree with Miriam and asking questions is the way to understand ones ways. I will get very sad when people are hesitant to place pictures and photo's online because they don't feel safe about it. This has foremost to be a safe learning environment and positive place for that!!! this is why we have put this forum online and nobody has to feel the right to undermine this because of personal issues or even jealousy. When someone feels the need to show they can do better, just show it and you'll get the 'WOW's it deserves ;) for sure! But this is not an competition either! I can't even get close to riding like ralph and ofcourse I'm very jealous ;) but my feeling of deep respect for them both comes first :D
Watch and learn from them is what I would recommend :thumright:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:02 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
Indeed, I actually lay awake last night worrying so much about this. :(

This is a study group, we all come here to learn and share.

If people want advise they'll say: 'can you all have a look, I'd like some tips' etc.
And when you do have advise to give, the guidelines in Miriam posts would work best I am sure

This is the best forum I ever been on and I think a lot here will agree.

Please do not make us having to set up more rules.
We want to let everyone as free as possible, like we do our horses on order to inspire the best to come out in everybody.

Josepha

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www.equusuniversalis.com


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:52 pm
Posts: 139
Location: France
Miriam wrote:
A lot of forums work according to the idea 'if you post pictures, photo's or stories about you and your horses, then you can only blame yourself for being critisized about them' .

Over here we don't. At AND, we hold the posters responsible for their posts. Even if something terrible happens in a video, then that doesn't give you the right to kick somebodies backside for that (except of course when it means kicking them out of the way of an approaching train or something like that ;) ). A post should not meant to ventilate anger or aggression or annoyance, but should be meant to help the person receiving it.

It's important to realise that what usually is understood as 'being critical' or 'just saying how it is', most of the time really means being unfair. You see 80% going well - but it's not perfect! - so you rush in to point out exactly what's wrong, forgetting to tell that actually these faults are very small as 80% is right.
If you're watching a video and just sum up everything that goes wrong, you're not helping. What would be helping, is pointing out the good stuff and give the rider the confidence and advice to become good in other parts too.

A similar thing goes for giving advice: you see something in a video that you don't agree with, and immediately write what the trainer should have done, and why, and why he's doing wrong now, and what he should do from now on to get it right. Forgetting that you probably don't know anything about the background, character, experience of this person and his horse, where he came from and what his goals are.
I once passed through an English forum where I read a topic in which someone had posted pictures of her riding her horse. She sat crooked in the saddle with her legs sticking out, working on travers and other high-level dressage movements. Immediately whole buckets of advice were poured out over her, ranging from 'You should sit straight, you're hindering your horse like this' to 'why on earth are you dabbling with such refined exercises when you don't even know the basics of a good seat?' and 'You should go back to the riding school and take a couple of months lessons on the seat on a lunge line, so you stop ruining your horse' to a whole range of stretching exercises she should do before she swung herself into the saddle in order not to hinder her horse. It turned out that she had a disease that had caused her spine to collapse in an S-shape to the side, meaning that she couldn't even straighten herself when standing on the ground. All that 'well-meant advice' really hurt her.

When you give advice, it's really good to keep in mind that you don't know anything about the poster. Maybe what she shows is only 30% right. Then of course you can bash her head for doing bad, but that won't help, especially not if she already struggled to rise to that level from 10%. Focus on what went well, and ask if she wants help in other sections too.

Also, it's good to keep in mind that the other poster isn't stupid. He or she probably does something for a reason (be it a good one or not), so most of the time advice like 'you should do a rising trot on your horse instead of sitting' is way off mark, because the poster probably is sitting for a specific reason that you don't know about. If you don't understand something, just ask a question about it (why do you sit during the trot all the time?). Don't jump to conclusions and think that the poster is an incompetent nincompoop. Sometimes they're not. 8)

Another thing to keep in mind is that because you don't know anything about the poster, you won't know what will help either. You can't write 'you should do this and that'. Instead, you can only write what you have experienced in a similar situation, what helped you in the past, what you have seen helping others. You need to put your advice into the right perspective: yours. That perspective should be visible in your posts, in order not to be very rude by looking like your knowledge overrules all that the poster knows and does.

A general guideline that you can use for giving your opinion or advice on something you see or read:
If you are interested/bothered/puzzled/intruigued by something you see, just ask a question about it. The answer will probably suprise you, and maybe can teach you something you didn't know too.
An added bonus is that it saves you from typing lots of unwanted advice - and the receiver from reading it! :lol: ;)


And so it is! Excellent said Miriam :) !
And this should not only be applied in this AND forum, but this 'behaviour code' should be practised in every interaction one has with other people or animals.

Josepha wrote:
Quote:
Please do not make us having to set up more rules.
We want to let everyone as free as possible, like we do our horses on order to inspire the best to come out in everybody.


Yes Josepha, I hope with all my heart that you, Bianca and Miriam will never have to set up more rules. That would be such a pity... :( You are absolutely right!

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Best wishes,
Jolanda
----------
our introduction with photos: http://www.artofnaturaldressage.com/viewtopic.php?t=744


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:19 pm 
Moderator
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Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 8:18 pm
Posts: 4941
Location: Alberta
And wouldn't it be heaven if it were like this over the whole, beautiful earth. Everyone simply behaving conscientiously. Kindly.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:20 pm 
Site Admin
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Joined: Tue May 15, 2007 2:40 pm
Posts: 4733
Location: Belgium
you know, I was just thinking that very same thing...

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www.equusuniversalis.com


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